Tourist vs Locals causing crashes, Ministry report.

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Batman

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Topic # 230506 27-Feb-2018 06:48

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/101732029/how-bad-are-foreign-drivers

So, there was one fatal crash for every 145,000 foreigners. And one fatal crash for every 17,900 Kiwis...

...How many of those foreigners actually drove on our roads? For that matter, how many Kiwis drove? How long did each person - tourist or New Zealander spend driving?

And some graphs ...

Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.

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Reply # 1964863 27-Feb-2018 07:12

Key message:

"It's a complex issue. We don't have all the answers"

i.e. it's not worth reading.

Probably the most interesting thing is that the NZTA apparently doesn't collect the most relevant statistic... the accidents/100,000km driven.

Batman

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Reply # 1964865 27-Feb-2018 07:21

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That's not true, with reference with climate change, "we don't have all the answers" and yet electric cars and lithium mining is 100% the answer and if you don't do it you're a denier.

Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.

frankv

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Reply # 1964870 27-Feb-2018 08:09

Batman:

That's not true, with reference with climate change, "we don't have all the answers" and yet electric cars and lithium mining is 100% the answer and if you don't do it you're a denier.

The difference is that wrt climate change, we *do* have relevant data that tells us what is happening. Wrt to tourists vs locals causing crashes, we apparently don't even try to collect the right information.

afe66

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Reply # 1964875 27-Feb-2018 08:18

6 people support this post

That must be a record.
Second reply and already off topic.

WTF does climate change have to do with tourist car crashes.

tripper1000

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Reply # 1964945 27-Feb-2018 11:05

While we are tweaking the statistics we collect on crashes and infringements issued to include visa/passport details I think it would be relevant to track drivers who are on student/working visa's or international driving permits as well - at least until we disprove any link. LTSA has figured out not only that you could buy a licence in Auckland but also that they've been duped into converting fake foreign licenses to NZ licenses (LINK). Driving standards in Auckland have definitely deteriorated in the time immigration has been rising - might be a coincidence but stat's would prove it one way or the other.

frankv

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Reply # 1965230 27-Feb-2018 16:23

tripper1000:

While we are tweaking the statistics we collect on crashes and infringements issued to include visa/passport details I think it would be relevant to track drivers who are on student/working visa's or international driving permits as well - at least until we disprove any link. LTSA has figured out not only that you could buy a licence in Auckland but also that they've been duped into converting fake foreign licenses to NZ licenses (LINK). Driving standards in Auckland have definitely deteriorated in the time immigration has been rising - might be a coincidence but stat's would prove it one way or the other.

On the NZTA site linked from the original post there are stats that say that foreign students and immigrants have about the same accident risk as NZ drivers (assuming they drive the same amount). Although I guess that immigrants (and foreign students?) will be on NZ licenses after a year anyway. You could look at the stats to see if the deteriorating standard of Auckland drivers is noticeably increasing accident numbers there. But no amount of stats on driver nationality or visa status will tell us anything useful about relative risk unless we also know how much they drive.

It's common sense that tourists, especially? campervans, will be drive a whole lot more on their 2-week tour of the entire country than your average Kiwi bloke, who will perhaps drive an hour or two per day to and from work, and maybe a few hours at the weekend. So, if tourists were equally risky, you would expect them to have (wild-ass guess) about 2-5 times the number of accidents per person.

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Reply # 1965236 27-Feb-2018 16:31

frankv:

It's common sense that tourists, especially? campervans, will be drive a whole lot more on their 2-week tour of the entire country than your average Kiwi bloke, who will perhaps drive an hour or two per day to and from work, and maybe a few hours at the weekend. So, if tourists were equally risky, you would expect them to have (wild-ass guess) about 2-5 times the number of accidents per person.

I isn't as straight forward as that though. Especially as I believe most crashes actually happen at intersections. Yet tourists will often be driving in the country (they usually come here to see nature) where there may be minimal busy intersections. So the main crashes they will have are head on crashes (eg driving on the wrong side of the road) , or actually going off the road, eg too fast around a corner

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Reply # 1965325 27-Feb-2018 18:31

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frankv:

Key message:

"It's a complex issue. We don't have all the answers"

i.e. it's not worth reading.

Probably the most interesting thing is that the NZTA apparently doesn't collect the most relevant statistic... the accidents/100,000km driven.

OK let me rephrase.

A complex issue, where we don't have all the answers, does not mean it's not worth reading.

Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.

Tinkerisk

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Reply # 1965369 27-Feb-2018 20:00

Not too bad for Germans and American's - finally they have to drive "on the wrong driveway side" they usually do and feel more like a chopper pilot at his right hand seat.

No backup, no pity. Anyway, RAID isn't one.

frankv

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Reply # 1965455 28-Feb-2018 07:21

mattwnz:

I isn't as straight forward as that though. Especially as I believe most crashes actually happen at intersections. Yet tourists will often be driving in the country (they usually come here to see nature) where there may be minimal busy intersections. So the main crashes they will have are head on crashes (eg driving on the wrong side of the road) , or actually going off the road, eg too fast around a corner

I agree regarding the intersections. I think that there is a missing message: "Look right". At intersections (and when pedestrians cross the road) the usual thing (in Europe/USA) the normal thing is to look left, and if all is clear, begin to move whilst looking right to ensure the other side of the road is clear too. If it's not, there's still plenty of room to pause or stop until it is clear. In NZ and other keep-left countries, the opposite is true. If you look left, then move, then look right, you may find yourself in the path of another vehicle.

MikeAqua

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Reply # 1965537 28-Feb-2018 09:48

Based on my experiences driving in the US ... the time I have to be thinking pro-actively about which lane you want to be in is when you pull out of a picnic area or whatever onto an empty road. Generally in NZ we paint lane arrows on road either side of such locations for that reason.

Mike

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Reply # 1965551 28-Feb-2018 10:03

afe66: That must be a record.
Second reply and already off topic.

WTF does climate change have to do with tourist car crashes.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4842192/Climate-change-caused-rise-traffic-collision-deaths.html

There's not much left that hasn't been blamed on climate change!

kryptonjohn

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Reply # 1965558 28-Feb-2018 10:09

MikeAqua:

Based on my experiences driving in the US ... the time I have to be thinking pro-actively about which lane you want to be in is when you pull out of a picnic area or whatever onto an empty road. Generally in NZ we paint lane arrows on road either side of such locations for that reason.

Exactly. I''m fine there when there's plenty of traffic about and automatically end up in the right place, but turning from one quiet street into another - I really need to be concentrating or I can just turn into the left side.

Batman

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Reply # 1965676 28-Feb-2018 11:26

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would be good if rental cars are required to have lane departure warning and collision avoidance .... but that will push up rental car prices!

would be good if ALL cars have that ... much safer for everybody

Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.

MikeAqua

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Reply # 1965722 28-Feb-2018 11:56

Batman:

would be good if rental cars are required to have lane departure warning and collision avoidance .... but that will push up rental car prices!

would be good if ALL cars have that ... much safer for everybody

If only everyone's cars were as capable as your's @Batman

Mike

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