2L Petrol Mondeo Station enough for caravan or swap for diesel?

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boland

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#245128 20-Jan-2019 09:06

Planning to buy a 4 berth caravan, guess max 1200kg. Got a Mondeo 2L 105kW 190Nm. Certified up to 1850 kg. Tow bar certified up to 1500kg braked.

We're living near a steep hill, about 20-25%. I'm worried the car may get stuck up hill.
It's not a turbo and eg when loaded heavily it's slow as hell. However I don't mind, just don't want to get stuck.

Only want to swap for a diesel if necessary.

Advice is appreciated!

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#2163985 20-Jan-2019 09:36

There is a higher chance you could destroy your car's drivetrain doing that steep hill repeatedly. Not sure if you realise - You may have 190Nm torque but it comes at around 4400 rpm so you'd be maxing out your engine most of the time.

In terms of getting stuck, doubt it as 1st gear would be a positive torque multiplier ... I'd say you're more likely to not make it when it's wet because being a FWD and towing, the front is unweighted by the heavy rear load disel or not ...

But hey I don't tow regularly! Maybe someone else will know.

dukester

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#2164012 20-Jan-2019 11:11

I had a 2 Litre Telestar when we bought our caravan. It quickly became apparent on the 160km drive home along flat roads that 2 Litre wasn't enough.

I settled on a Suzuki Grand Vitara 2.7 petrol engine which has proved to be more than enough.

Petrol or diesel I feel is a personal choice. There is arguments for and against both types for towing.

Shoes2468

785 posts

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#2164159 20-Jan-2019 13:36

boland: Planning to buy a 4 berth caravan, guess max 1200kg. Got a Mondeo 2L 105kW 190Nm. Certified up to 1850 kg. Tow bar certified up to 1500kg braked.

We're living near a steep hill, about 20-25%. I'm worried the car may get stuck up hill.
It's not a turbo and eg when loaded heavily it's slow as hell. However I don't mind, just don't want to get stuck.

Only want to swap for a diesel if necessary.

Advice is appreciated!

I don’t think you would run out of power, I think it would be more of a question about the transmission being able to cope, plus how well you will do if it’s windy sway etc. And of course how much stuff you’re gonna put in said caravan? Everything and the kitchen sink?

Is it a UK style caravan?

gzt

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#2164160 20-Jan-2019 13:48

boland: We're living near a steep hill, about 20-25%. I'm worried the car may get stuck up hill.

Always go the other way around regardless.

pdh

343 posts

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#2164184 20-Jan-2019 14:37

Done 60,000+ km caravan towing over the past 4 years -.
Learned a lot before I started, and more doing it.
Don't regret taking the time to learn enough to stay safe and really enjoy it.

Things to know:
- Caravan makers always lie about (understate) their 'empty' weights.
- Adding water, battery, food, grog, cooking gear, clothing, sports gear adds up fast.
- Look for the max 'allowed' weight for your caravan - and bet you'll come close.
- Having an oversized towing vehicle is a much, much happier error.
- Try borrowing a caravan - or just rent a small digger - and trial it.

boland

545 posts

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#2164450 20-Jan-2019 21:32

Shoes2468:
boland: Planning to buy a 4 berth caravan, guess max 1200kg. Got a Mondeo 2L 105kW 190Nm. Certified up to 1850 kg. Tow bar certified up to 1500kg braked.

We're living near a steep hill, about 20-25%. I'm worried the car may get stuck up hill.
It's not a turbo and eg when loaded heavily it's slow as hell. However I don't mind, just don't want to get stuck.

Only want to swap for a diesel if necessary.

Advice is appreciated!

I don’t think you would run out of power, I think it would be more of a question about the transmission being able to cope, plus how well you will do if it’s windy sway etc. And of course how much stuff you’re gonna put in said caravan? Everything and the kitchen sink?

Is it a UK style caravan?

We're still looking for a caravan. Not sure how much we will take either, but probably better to be safe than sorry. Think a more powerful 4wd is better.

boland

545 posts

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#2164451 20-Jan-2019 21:34

dukester:
I had a 2 Litre Telestar when we bought our caravan. It quickly became apparent on the 160km drive home along flat roads that 2 Litre wasn't enough.

I settled on a Suzuki Grand Vitara 2.7 petrol engine which has proved to be more than enough.

Petrol or diesel I feel is a personal choice. There is arguments for and against both types for towing.

Thanks! I always thought diesel was the way to go because of higher torque? I did search and still seemed to be the case?
I'm thinking now to get a 4wd to be able to drive in all conditions. Petrol or diesel is the question?

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Batman

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#2164452 20-Jan-2019 21:35

pdh:

Done 60,000+ km caravan towing over the past 4 years -.
Learned a lot before I started, and more doing it.
Don't regret taking the time to learn enough to stay safe and really enjoy it.

Things to know:
- Caravan makers always lie about (understate) their 'empty' weights.
- Adding water, battery, food, grog, cooking gear, clothing, sports gear adds up fast.
- Look for the max 'allowed' weight for your caravan - and bet you'll come close.
- Having an oversized towing vehicle is a much, much happier error.
- Try borrowing a caravan - or just rent a small digger - and trial it.

I have seen a caravan wobble under heavy winds and almost overturned the 4wd in front of me. Do you have any experience on how to reduce the chances of this? I know modern 4wds have a anti trailer wobble computer for this scenario!

Batman

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#2164454 20-Jan-2019 21:37

boland:
dukester:

I had a 2 Litre Telestar when we bought our caravan. It quickly became apparent on the 160km drive home along flat roads that 2 Litre wasn't enough.

I settled on a Suzuki Grand Vitara 2.7 petrol engine which has proved to be more than enough.

Petrol or diesel I feel is a personal choice. There is arguments for and against both types for towing.

Thanks! I always thought diesel was the way to go because of higher torque? I did search and still seemed to be the case?
I'm thinking now to get a 4wd to be able to drive in all conditions. Petrol or diesel is the question?

diesel

boland

545 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2164455 20-Jan-2019 21:38

Batman:
pdh:

Done 60,000+ km caravan towing over the past 4 years -.
Learned a lot before I started, and more doing it.
Don't regret taking the time to learn enough to stay safe and really enjoy it.

Things to know:
- Caravan makers always lie about (understate) their 'empty' weights.
- Adding water, battery, food, grog, cooking gear, clothing, sports gear adds up fast.
- Look for the max 'allowed' weight for your caravan - and bet you'll come close.
- Having an oversized towing vehicle is a much, much happier error.
- Try borrowing a caravan - or just rent a small digger - and trial it.

I have seen a caravan wobble under heavy winds and almost overturned the 4wd in front of me. Do you have any experience on how to reduce the chances of this? I know modern 4wds have a anti trailer wobble computer for this scenario!

No experience driving a caravan. We have had a camper before

Wheelbarrow01

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#2164491 21-Jan-2019 00:53

Batman:

pdh:

Done 60,000+ km caravan towing over the past 4 years -.
Learned a lot before I started, and more doing it.
Don't regret taking the time to learn enough to stay safe and really enjoy it.

Things to know:
- Caravan makers always lie about (understate) their 'empty' weights.
- Adding water, battery, food, grog, cooking gear, clothing, sports gear adds up fast.
- Look for the max 'allowed' weight for your caravan - and bet you'll come close.
- Having an oversized towing vehicle is a much, much happier error.
- Try borrowing a caravan - or just rent a small digger - and trial it.

I have seen a caravan wobble under heavy winds and almost overturned the 4wd in front of me. Do you have any experience on how to reduce the chances of this? I know modern 4wds have a anti trailer wobble computer for this scenario!

My UK caravan weighs around 900kg, but I expect with all our gear it's probably closer to 1100-1200kg. I tow it with a 2016 Ranger Wildtrak which is possibly overkill, however I also have a boat which is more like 1500-1700kg.

My caravan has an anti-sway coupling which grips the towball tightly to help eliminate sway - and this is standard in many UK caravans. My Ranger also has a sway mitigation program which brakes individual wheels when it detects sway. The two systems work amazingly well together. I've towed my caravan in some massive Canterbury nor' westers and the caravan plots a straight & true course behind me - it really doesn't sway at all.

If you wanted sway mitigation on your vehicle, I know the 2011+ PX1 Ranger has it, and you can get one of those in 4WD for around $30k+ (possibly less for a 2WD).

The big advantage you have with a decent size vehicle is the actual weight of the vehicle itself. You are far less likely to have the tail wag the dog if you know what I mean.

If you are looking for something cheaper, you could consider a PJ/PK Ranger which you can get for under $20k - but they don't have trailer sway mitigation, and they will generally have higher kms. I used to have one of these and it towed my boat just fine (I didn't have my caravan back then).

One benefit of decent size diesel is that the fuel usage when towing doesn't go through the roof when towing like a petrol motor does. And they really are great on hills, particularly because you can use the engine for slowing down instead of shagging your brakes in record time.

pdh

343 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2164500 21-Jan-2019 03:57

Wheelbarrow01 said:
> You are far less likely to have the tail wag the dog

I'd second that advice.

You have a number of concerns towing - and you need to prioritize them.
Obviously, the main one is not hurting yourself or others.
After that - it's largely cost vs convenience.

(a) can your target vehicle tow the load up your big hill ?
Just invest 100$ and get a cheap hire digger for an hour or two.
If your engine/transmission's not happy - decision made.

(b) do you need a tow vehicle for up & down big hills regularly ?
I knew I was going to be taking a sizeable double-axle caravan (3000+ kg) up and down the Rocky Mountains (and about 10 other mountain ranges) frequently - so, for me, buying a biggish diesel truck was justifiable. If I'd been planning to run a small caravan over mostly flat terrain - for a few 100 km, only a couple of times a summer - a big diesel would have been hard to justify. Modern car brakes are damn good and bad fuel economy for a few 100 km plus a new set of brake pads won't add up to the cost of a new/bigger tow vehicle. Really hard service may cost you a transmission. But you've got to balance that cost / benefit for yourself.

(c) does your tow vehicle - caravan combination forbid sway ?
Sway is really, really horrible. Nasty - don't go there.
Learned that years ago with a small garden trailer.
Count it a major success that I never came close to a problem with the big caravan.
Easiest way to make a caravan misbehave is to balance the caravan's weight so that not enough is on the hitch.
Keep in mind that even a well-designed caravan shifts some weight fore & aft as you use water.
You can also make substantial changes yourself - just shifting stuff from front to rear or vice versa.
For a lightweight, British style of trailer... this is extra important, as 100 - 200 kg is a huge component of overall weight.
So, set it up right to begin with - and keep an eye on how 'stuff' gets packed.
Brits like 5%, Canadians like 10% of trailer weight on the tongue.

Things that promote (contribute to) sway:
- Fore & aft weight balance is wrong in caravan - not enough tongue weight
- Side winds (or oncoming B-trains)
- Potholes or bad pavement
- Tow vehicle lightweight
- Tow vehicle short wheelbase
- tyre pressures imbalanced or wrong - check every trip

Things that reduce sway:
- correct tongue weight
- heavier, longer wheelbase vehicle (ie: pickup is better than SUV - all other things equal)
- smart electronics in the caravan brakes - to apply each wheel(s) brake to counter sway
- smart electronics in the tow vehicle's brakes - as above
- a mechanical anti-sway hitch (somewhat rare in NZ) - eg: Reese
- dampers (shock absorbers) on the caravan's suspension

I've left speed out of the above, as it's less of a factor in NZ.
Towing in windy Montana - where the legal towing limit is 129 kph - speed was more of an issue.

Look, when I sold the rig at the end of 3 years wandering round Alaska, Canada & the US - what I put in my For Sale ad summed up both my expectations - and my conclusions:
"That's called 'overkill' – or 'a comfortable safety margin' depending on your point of view. On rainy steep downhill grades, or in big mid-western wind gusts – it's just called peace-of-mind."

boland

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#2164512 21-Jan-2019 07:19

Thank you for the very useful insights! Some good for thought.

Coil

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#2164519 21-Jan-2019 07:32

My BMW 2.8 pulls like a school boy but you don't want to be paying the petrol bill, will also cost you a diff and entire driveline after a 1000KM of doing it!!

Get a diesel, preferably in a chassis more suited to towing. Lots of good info here from a skim over :) But from a mechanical standpoint, get something more designed for it, otherwise you'll be replacing driveline bits like me for the next 6 months.. (I only towed 2.2 tonne from Whangarei to Auckland and didn't drop below 60KPH..)

Cheers

Dingbatt

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#2164529 21-Jan-2019 08:20

Having owned a 2L Mondeo in the past, I wouldn't tow anything bigger than a light domestic trailer with it. If you do decide to change vehicles then avoid CVT, and if you do go with a torque converter automatic make sure you get transmission cooling.
As a rule Kiwis try to tow too much with too little.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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