Free left turn at lights

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646 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#248883 14-Apr-2019 16:21

Just come back from Hawaii where I rented a car for a day (Ford Mustang GT) . At first I was unsure about driving on the other side of the road but there's so many cars you just follow them and the roads are fairly well marked with arrows everywhere.

I did notice the lack of direction arrows at the traffic lights - there were a few but in NZ they seem to be everywhere. That made me remember that they have a free right turn at lights (even when red) as long as it's clear - the equivalent would be a free left turn here.

That did make the traffic flow a lot better.

Why don't we do that here?

Part of me believes that we are such impatient and bad drivers that this will cause an increase in car accidents.

old3eyes

9119 posts

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#2217004 14-Apr-2019 16:40

It was tried in Auckland some years ago but the bureaucrats decided that we weren't mature enough to handle it. Even Samoa has this feature.

Regards,

Old3eyes

Behodar

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#2217006 14-Apr-2019 16:46

Given that I had to slam on the brakes this morning to avoid someone that sailed right through a Give Way, I'm not sure that the average person could handle this...

Aredwood

3885 posts

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#2217009 14-Apr-2019 16:57

old3eyes:
It was tried in Auckland some years ago but the bureaucrats decided that we weren't mature enough to handle it. Even Samoa has this feature.

We definitely need that rule in NZ. Driving in Samoa, it actually works really well. As there is less unnecessary waiting at traffic lights. And because you are aware of the existence of that rule. If you are going straight or turning right at traffic lights. You are forced to be more aware, and make sure that any left turning cars have seen you.

The authorities in NZ just need to learn. That you cant fix poor driver behavior like failure to give way, just by reducing the number of give way intersections. As you would never be able to put traffic lights on every single possible intersection, or otherwise be able to completely eliminate the need for drivers to give way to eachover.

mattwnz

20141 posts

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#2217018 14-Apr-2019 17:15

one problem in NZ is that a lot of the traffic lights have been replaced with roundabouts, because they use the argument that roundabouts create freer flowing traffic. It makes a lot of sense to have free turning when clear IMO to keep traffic flowing at lights. Many roundabouts in NZ are far too small to work effectively, you often find yourself in the wrong lane if traffic is banked up on multi-lane roundabouts, and and many people don't know the rules either.

rendezvous

194 posts

Master Geek

#2217030 14-Apr-2019 17:33

I don’t think the slight improvement in flow is worth the risk of more collisions. The right run on red in North America is after coming to a complete stop first. Many many drivers can’t comprehend what a stop signs are as it is. We do have many intersections where there are slip lanes for turning left, whether they’re a free turn or have a give way sign also. As said above, we make use of roundabouts at lower volume intersections.

mattwnz

20141 posts

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#2217038 14-Apr-2019 17:44

rendezvous: I don’t think the slight improvement in flow is worth the risk of more collisions. The right run on red in North America is after coming to a complete stop first. Many many drivers can’t comprehend what a stop signs are as it is. We do have many intersections where there are slip lanes for turning left, whether they’re a free turn or have a give way sign also. As said above, we make use of roundabouts at lower volume intersections.

Cameras and software at traffic lights should be able to pick that up. I am not sure if it would lead to more collisions because as someone pointed out above, it makes people more aware, and isn't too much different from a normal giveway sign where if you are turning you only go if it is clear. But I would be very wary of using them in 100km areas where some traffic lights are used.

Tzoi

424 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2217091 14-Apr-2019 20:48

In NYC it's not allowed (not sure the reason why), though I see they ran a study to see if it should be which showed there weren't really any downsides to it

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scuwp

3885 posts

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#2217112 14-Apr-2019 22:04

mattwnz:

one problem in NZ is that a lot of the traffic lights have been replaced with roundabouts, because they use the argument that roundabouts create freer flowing traffic. It makes a lot of sense to have free turning when clear IMO to keep traffic flowing at lights. Many roundabouts in NZ are far too small to work effectively, you often find yourself in the wrong lane if traffic is banked up on multi-lane roundabouts, and and many people don't know the rules either.

Roundabouts are cheaper and safer (less points of convergence and the angles are sharper so impacts aren't as severe = higher rate of survival).

I don't think the average NZ driver could handle this, and don't think it will save that much as far as congestion goes.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Batman

Mad Scientist
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#2217138 15-Apr-2019 00:46

logo:

Just come back from Hawaii where I rented a car for a day (Ford Mustang GT) . At first I was unsure about driving on the other side of the road but there's so many cars you just follow them and the roads are fairly well marked with arrows everywhere.

I did notice the lack of direction arrows at the traffic lights - there were a few but in NZ they seem to be everywhere. That made me remember that they have a free right turn at lights (even when red) as long as it's clear - the equivalent would be a free left turn here.

That did make the traffic flow a lot better.

Why don't we do that here?

Part of me believes that we are such impatient and bad drivers that this will cause an increase in car accidents.

Because it would make too much sense?

unowho08

58 posts

Master Geek

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#2217139 15-Apr-2019 01:30

Tzoi:

In NYC it's not allowed (not sure the reason why), though I see they ran a study to see if it should be which showed there weren't really any downsides to it

There are significantly more pedestrians in NYC that are crossing at intersections controlled by traffic lights, hence the need to limit the possibility of pedestrians being hit by turning vehicles when the pedestrian has the absolute right-of-way to cross the intersection.

FineWine

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Nurse (R)

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#2217594 15-Apr-2019 17:13

Lived in Aussie for 30 years and they have Free Left Turn on Red After Stopping only when it is sign posted as such.

The doozy one is in Melbourne where they have Right Turn From Left Only (Hook Turn) and it is because of the trams. Also because of trams they have introduced what is called a P turn or Remote Right Turn. What this is if you wish to turn right, you turn left, moving over to the right lane for approximately 75 meters, then do a 'U' turn and go your merry way. Bali has had these 'P' turns or Remote Right Turns for about 15 years but their traffic is a 'free-4-all' anyway. What I do love about Bali is if you wish to go straight through (across) an uncontrolled intersection you put your hazard lights on till you are completely through the intersection.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

Oblivian

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#2217623 15-Apr-2019 20:00

There are intersections where it would have it's merits.

Harewood rd in chc for instance. Always backs up for people wanting to turn left headed toward northlands at peak. You need to lane dance approaching it if you wan't to make the straight ahead due the sheer volume and road they turn into backing up.

And like many others - what does that lead to? Red light runners opposite turning right who never get the chance to turn (when the arrows aren't in phase). It would in many cases, take away the impatient runners turning right at many locations as the number of those they need to give way to vs straight on only traffic would be reduced

But hell, we have people that take half a phase when they still don't realise a green arrow means the other on-comming traffic WILL NOT have a green light and generally 0 chance of hitting you (unless they're silly, distracted and incorrectly use the alternate arrow as their go to take off)

nickb800

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#2217627 15-Apr-2019 20:13

Gets a bit tricky with pedestrians in the mix - you might not be able to see past other cars to your right to see pedestrians crossing without nosing out into the pedestrian crossing bit