Can I Negotiate Price With a Toyota Dealer?

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TLD

902 posts

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#280391 12-Dec-2020 09:31

I'm in the process of swapping my 2001 Pajero for a 2016(ish) Highlander Limited from the local Toyota dealer here in Blenheim, and I am wondering what sort of deal I can get if anything? My Paj is a (tiny) bit beat-up, and rather than a part-exchange, they tell me they will off it to another dealer who deals with older vehicles, and pass on what they pay to me, so that kind of removes them sweetening the deal by upping what they give me for the Paj. So are Toyota dealer ticket prices negotiable, or is 'the price is the price' (as I think I remember from Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels said to Nick the Greek)?

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

BlinkyBill

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#2620402 12-Dec-2020 09:45

Car dealers are better negotiators than you or me. They have buyers for their cars every day and can afford to wait for a better deal.

The accepted rule of thumb is to finalise the buy price first, then discuss whether cash/trade-in/finance/extra’s after.

In your case, I reckon you should finalise the buy price, then see what they’ll give you on a trade-in (won’t be much) and perhaps sell directly yourself on Trademe.

I miss my Pajero and wish I’d never sold it, but I don’t want yours.

Good luck, but I doubt you’ll get a good deal based on a Trade-in, better to focus on the buy price.

Fred99

13684 posts

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#2620411 12-Dec-2020 10:14

Particularly if the Pajero is diesel, sell it privately. Now is a very good time. People have bought new caravans, boats etc, have planned Xmas holidays, and come to the realisation that the car they've got either won't cut the mustard, or already blew up the first time they tried to tow their new toy up a hill.

billgates

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#2620422 12-Dec-2020 10:27

I know that brand new Toyota and Honda cars prices cannot be negotiated. The prices are fixed. You can negotiate the dealer on free/discounted accessories etc so the price across all dealerships will be the same for brand new cars. This also ensures every buyer gets a fair price and the value of car does not drops dramatically in the second hand market either.

I would expect a second hand Toyota purchase would still be negotiable since the dealership owns the car. For brand new Toyota and Honda cars, the brand owns these cars including the brand new one sitting in their dealers show rooms,

Do whatever you want to do man.

Stu1

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#2620427 12-Dec-2020 11:07

recently the most I could get off a second hand car was 500 max at both Toyota , Brendan foot and capital city Mazda. Sell your car privately

Batman

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#2620432 12-Dec-2020 11:25

Toyota had moved to a centralised pricing model and apparently cannot be negotiated but don't quote me!

While the price may not be negotiable you can always ask for freebies. Free servicing, fuel, carpets, any extra fees perhaps

Dingbatt

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#2620439 12-Dec-2020 11:48

Toyota have their “Drive Happy” operation. The dealers act as agents for Toyota NZ. When you buy a new vehicle you buy it direct from Toyota with the dealer acting as the agent. Supposedly there is no difference between the RRP (Toyota call it TDP - Toyota Driveaway Price) and the fleet price, so it is fixed by Toyota.

When they first introduced this way of selling, the Camry Hybrid I was looking at dropped $10K overnight (RRP to TDP). This was obviously the dealer markup. It is a breath of fresh air to not have to haggle over the vehicle price, on-road costs, etc.

There is no ‘swings and roundabouts’ ability in this way of doing business, so they will try and lowball you as much as possible on the trade-in.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Scott3

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#2620441 12-Dec-2020 11:59

Toyota's No negotiation policy only applies to new cars, so you are welcome to negotiate regarding used cars.

With regards to the trade in, dealers typically will offer you 60-80% of what they think they can sell the trade in car for (less if it is something very cheap). If you have the time and will to sell privately, This should net you a substantially more money. Dealers pick up obligations from the CGA that you don't have to carry, and often the vehicles won't fit their yard's focus, so sometimes they just sent them to wholesale auction's.

With regard's to the new car, do a quick trade me search for comparable vehicles. 2016 highlander limited's seem to range from $34k to $44k depending on mileage and condition. Dealers are more likely to discount a vehicle that has been priced above the market.

With regards to the current shape highlander in general, had a low spec one around this age as a rental vehicle. Pretty much perfect for what we used it for, which was long distance touring around the south island. Spacious, comfortable, refined, smooth, powerful, used 91RON etc. Downsides were that it is kinda big to park, and it was very thirsty in urban running (but acceptable on the open road). As with most vehicles in this class, cant fit adults in the 3rd row, and not much luggage space with the third row in use. I thought it could have done with a bigger fuel tank.

Note that the highlander got a mid cycle refresh in late 2016. Other than an exterior facelift, the transmission was changed from a 6 to 8 speed unit, and there were significant engine changes, boosting power from 201kW to 218kW, and improving economy at the same time, Note that the engine changed to direct injection type, which gives some more complexity and diesel like characteristics. The post refresh Limiters start at $42k, so that is something to consider if you were allerady shopping in that ballpark cost. Spouse to save 1.1L/100km, so some of the higher purchase price would be clawed back in fuel savings over your ownership.

Note that a new shape highlander has already been launched in other markets, and is coming to NZ in early 2021. It is coming exclusively as a cira 180kW 4 cylinder hybrid. Not sure what impact this will have on cira 2016 pricing. They may remain sought after due to the 200+kW V6 being discontinued, or there could be a lot turn up on the market as people and fleets upgrade to the more economical hybrid and new body shape.

In general both the new and used car markets in NZ are in an unusual state:

Covid-19 related production delays have meant less new cars are available & in stock than is typical.
Lack of international tourists has lead to rental car companies like jucy going bust, other have been downsizing their fleets by selling their older vehicles, or not doing their typical pre-summer procurement of new cars (typically rental companies have their new cars delivered in say november, and dispose of cars in feb/march, meaning they have one years turnover extra vehicles on hand for the summer peak. The highlander is a popular rental vehicle, but not the "Limited" Trim you are after.
Lack of access to overseas holidays mean cashed up money to spend on NZ based Cars, Caravans, Boats, campervans, toys etc.
Various shipping issues, caused by container shortages (due to being unable to be devanned due to covid lock-downs months ago), less air freight capacity, trying to catch up with covid delays, port issues etc means a lot of stuff is getting delayed in landing in NZ.
Prices of used cars in japan auctions have risen.
Fuel prices are especially low, meaning that larger vehicle purchases are easier to justify.
Desire to minimize close personal contact means people would have brought commuter cars to avoid public transport.
Drama's with air travel mean more people holidaying / traveling by road - not refunding airline canceled flights, lesser flight availability, air crew from international flights allowed to fly domestically without isolation etc.

All of the above has combined to meaning that many dealerships have less stock on hand than usual. In some cases if dealerships sell stock they know they won't be able to replace it quickly or at a reasonable cost. As such many dealers will choose not to discount to protect their margins.

NZ article:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/300159752/dealerships-struggle-to-keep-up-as-covid-accelerates-vehicle-sales

Aussie article:

https://www.caradvice.com.au/875466/used-car-prices-australia/

As others have said, now is probiably a great time to sell your Pajero. It's a well regarded tow wagon / lifestyle vehicle that would be desirable in the current market.

Sharesies

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Scott3

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#2620442 12-Dec-2020 12:14

Dingbatt:

Toyota have their “Drive Happy” operation. The dealers act as agents for Toyota NZ. When you buy a new vehicle you buy it direct from Toyota with the dealer acting as the agent. Supposedly there is no difference between the RRP (Toyota call it TDP - Toyota Driveaway Price) and the fleet price, so it is fixed by Toyota.

When they first introduced this way of selling, the Camry Hybrid I was looking at dropped $10K overnight (RRP to TDP). This was obviously the dealer markup. It is a breath of fresh air to not have to haggle over the vehicle price, on-road costs, etc.

There is no ‘swings and roundabouts’ ability in this way of doing business, so they will try and lowball you as much as possible on the trade-in.

This only applies to new cars.

Also note there are substantial discounts on fleet (bulk) pricing. This is how they remain one of the most popular brands in the top tier rental fleets.

This differs to the likes of Tesla who don't allow negotiation or give discounts to anybody (other than to clear their demo cars).

But I to think toyota's approach is an improvement. I think other brands advertising +ORC prices is a bit deceptive. Clearly If I am spending 10's of thousands of dollars on a car I want to be able to drive it away from the dealership. I don't think there is any other industry where it is acceptable to charge for the likes of cleaning a brand new product before delivery.

I see it as a stepping stone to moving sales online. Hard to do this well if you have your dealers undercutting your online price, or screaming at you for undercutting them.

TLD

902 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2620560 12-Dec-2020 16:21

Some really useful information there guys. Thanks for responding. I've had the Pajero since 2005 and loved it, but it is getting a bit tired now. It has a front end judder that I have been unable to fix despite two vehicle repair places trying. It also has a tiny misfire under low throttle which my repair place improved but did not fix entirely. So I'd like to be done with it without the hassle of selling privately. It's 3.5 petrol GLS. I've had the third row seats removed from the Paj for nearly all the time I have owned it, and had to re-register it as a five seater at VTNZ. The seats and seat-belts are back in now, and it didn't cost anything to have VTNZ make it seven seater (it cost about $38 to change it to 5 seats).

I carry a lot of tools which is why I wanted the Highlander. I think there will actually be more room in the Highlander than I had in the Paj, and I'll be able to keep the second row seats in place. I'm nervous about messing up leather seats as well, so I'll try and look after the new vehicle. So after reading everyone's replies I'll do my best to get best price for the Highlander, and probably suck up whatever they give me for the Pajero.

The Paj has a GPS which I will leave in because it will make a mess if I remove it, and a reversing aid which also shows speed. Another mod that has been useful was fitting two USB sockets (one each side of the interior light) to power GPS and dashcam. I have a DOD LS430W dashcam, but will get something newer for the Highlander.

Thanks again for all the advice guys. That was a way bigger response than I was expecting.

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

Scott3

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#2621461 14-Dec-2020 17:18

Sounds like it is time to move on. And trading is the way to go for convenience.

Ultimately the buyer of a 2001 SUV might not care about the fairly minor issues you listed, but it is still more complicated than selling a car that is in great running order.

Probably a good move to go to something more efficient before petrol prices rise as air travel starts to come back online.

Obviously you are moving from an off road capable SUV, to a soft one with less ground clearance, and no low range etc. You pick up gains in comfort, efficiency, power & interior space with what you give up in off road ability.

Current shape highlander has an impressive amount of room in 5 seat configuration. Third row seats fold neatly into the floor, so little motivation to remove them.

Sometimes the softer SUV's sag badly when you put a lot of weight in the boot, but we had 90kg odd in the back of the rental highlander (plus 2 adults and a baby), and it was still sitting pretty well. I think the payload is something like 660kg which would be comparable to the pajero.

mudguard

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#2621463 14-Dec-2020 17:26

I'd be intrigued to know the fuel usage of the Pajero vs the Highlander. I've had the 200kW one a few times as a rental car and it's ferociously and but I swear I could see the fuel gauge moving.

TLD

902 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2624082 18-Dec-2020 18:27

mudguard:

I'd be intrigued to know the fuel usage of the Pajero vs the Highlander. I've had the 200kW one a few times as a rental car and it's ferociously and but I swear I could see the fuel gauge moving.

The problem with that is that I have not dared measure the Pajero fuel economy for years, but it is definitely less than 20mpg (14.1 L/100km). I have just done a deal for a 2017 Limited with the 3.5L petrol and 8 speed auto, and that is rated at 30mpg (9.1 L/100Km) for highway. It's tricky finding the city mileage as the sites are mostly USA, and a US gallon works out to slightly more than one and a half thimbles. (OK I just put my brain in gear. An imperial gallon is equal to 1.2 US gallons. City mileage for the 3.5P is 20mpg in America, so 24mpg in New Zealand.

The best deal I could get was having it transported from Wellington to Blenheim for free (Normally around $600, but that surely depends on distance as well as a ferry crossing), and next service for free, plus the usual one year WOF, six months reg and a full tank of fuel. I might have done better dealing directly with the Wellington Toyota dealer, but there are bugger all vehicle ferry crossings available this side of Christmas, and it would have cost me at least $500 to go over and bring it back, and this way if I have any issues they will be with Blenheim Toyota rather that Wellington.

I'll take this threads advice and sell the Paj private — it will be easier to get the issues fixed (wheel shimmy and low speed misfire) when I have two vehicles. Thanks again for the heads up. There is a ton of experience and knowledge on this site.

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)