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cthombor

81 posts

Master Geek

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#284179 5-Apr-2021 19:44
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FYI in case you didn't know, the Nissan e-NV200 is very-roughly a Leaf chassis with a van body; but it also has active temperature management so -- in principle -- it should be possible to go more than 300 km in a day, in a 24 kWh e-NV200, without overheating its batteries... but ... the less-aerodynamic body of an e-NV200, along with its lower "gearing" of its drive so that it can pull itself and a 0.5 tonne payload up a steep  hill, give it a significantly lower km/kWh efficiency than a Leaf at motorway speeds, so it's still rather a challenge to go much more than 300 km in a day...

Today I ran a few experiments on my e-NV200, with the goal of figuring out how best to keep its batteries from overheating on long motorway trips.  If you have an e-NV200 maybe you can see if you get similar results to the ones below?

 

Finding #1: the active cooling (a heat pump plus a fan) is operating during a DC fast-charge on my 2014 ex-Japan 24 kWh e-NV200, but (when the ambient air temp is about 20 degrees) the batteries still gain about 2 degrees during a fast-charge to 80% SOC.   

 

Evidence for finding 1: See below for a charge from 22% SOC to 82% SOC, sensor 1 initially at about 26 degrees, rising to somewhat above 28 degrees, then dropping slowly after the charge rate drops below 15 kW. 

 

 

Additional evidence for finding #1: see below for a 40-minute charge from 26% SOC to 40% SOC, with the first 18 minutes being a DC fast-charge (initially 44 kW, dropping to 20 kW) and then about 20 minutes of AC slow charge (1.5 kW: this being 8A downrated by 10% in my mode-2 EVSE, multiplied by 230 VAC).  Note that the battery temperature started to drop after initially rising a couple of degrees, and that the slope of the temperature-drop is not hugely different between the DC fast-charge and the slow-charge.

 

 

Finding #2: you can use a DC fast-charger to lower your 24 kWh e-NV200's battery temperature by charging it above 80%, but it's rather expensive -- and you'll annoy anyone else who wants to use that charger.   See below: a 14-minute session on a $0.25/min, $0.25/kWh fast-charger; total charge delivered was just under 1.0 kWh for $4.88.   

 

 

Finding #3, The battery temperature drops about 4 degrees per hour when charging, if the ambient temperature is about 20 degrees.   See the fast-DC charge above, and see also the 20-minute AC-charge at the end of the second screenshot in this posting.

 

Finding #4, the active temp control consumes about 500W when the battery temp is above 25 degrees.  From below: a 1.5 kW AC charge delivers only about 0.9 kW to the batteries when they're hot; but the green and blue lines nearly coincide in the second half of this charging session (which was much quieter than the first half, as the fan-noise had been quite loud).   At a very rough guess: 50W for the fan, 450W for the heat-pump, and maybe 100W for the inverter (assuming it runs at above 90% efficiency, and also noticing that the green-blue difference in the second half of the session is usually 0.0 kW, 0.1 kW, or 0.2 kW).

 

 

Moral #1: if your batteries are getting hot, you might fast-charge until they cool down.  Indicative cost when the ambient air temp is roughly 20 degrees: ($0.25 / minute)*(15 minutes / degree) = ($3.75 plus 15 minutes of waiting-around) per degree of temperature drop.   Alternatively: you could ask someone for access to their AC power point.  That won't speed the temperature drop, but you won't be "renting" the (very spendy!) DC fast-charger while you wait for your batteries to cool -- and it's no faster than an AC slow-charge when your SOC is above 90%.

 

Moral #2: the best place on the NI for me to stop for a battery-cooling session in my e-NV200 is at the top of the Desert Road at night.   The ambient air temp is reliably below 10 degrees, and the stars are spectacular.  But YMMV, as you're unlikely to have an AC power supply.

 

Question: can you draw 8A from the 100 VAC 60 Hz inverter in an ex-Japan e-NV200 while it's AC charging?   If so then you can (lossily!) have its motive battery "charge itself" (with the fan and heat-pump working to drop its temp) -- well that's a lossy process so you wouldn't want to do that when you're trying to cross the Desert Road, but you could try it after a DC fast-charge session to 80% that left your batteries overheated.   The mode-2 EVSEs normally used with Leafs and e-NV200 will run all the way down to 100 VAC; and at 8A (derated by 10%, so actually 7.2A) that'll be only 720 W -- barely enough to run the heat pump and fan, so quite efficient really as a way of lowering the temperature of an e-NV200 using its motive battery as the inverter would hardly be producing any charging current.   Worth a try perhaps, but I can't do it, because I had pulled the 100 VAC 60 Hz inverter from my e-NV200 to save some weight -- has a heavy steel mounting bracket... and annoyingly found that I had to leave its neighbouring junction-box in the circuit to avoid tripping HV DC fault codes, so I didn't gain much space.   The only use I ever found for that inverter was charging a laptop -- as their power supplies are designed to work on any country's AC supply (including Japan's 100 VAC)... 


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RunningMan
8953 posts

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  #2686814 5-Apr-2021 20:03
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If you haven't already, I suggest having a look at Bjorn Nyland's EV videos - he does a 1,500km trip in an e-NV200

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland/search?query=nv200




cthombor

81 posts

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  #2686853 5-Apr-2021 21:12
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RunningMan:

 

If you haven't already, I suggest having a look at Bjorn Nyland's EV videos - he does a 1,500km trip in an e-NV200

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland/search?query=nv200

 

 

Interesting indeed.   But!  Bjorn did that test-drive of a 2017 24 kWh e-NV200 in a (southern) Swedish winter.   The outside temp was -3 degrees on his dash... perhaps it warmed up a few degrees during the day, but I wasn't in the mood to keep watching as I already knew that -- *if* you have warm batteries already, an ambient temp near zero is pretty much ideal for an EV.   The batteries cool a bit while you're driving, and then heat up a bit while you're fast-charging.   

The active-control of an e-NV200 takes the guesswork out of doing a long roadtrip in a Swedish winter in a Leaf -- which would be a *real* challenge for Bjorn, as he'd have to adjust his driving speed in order to balance the heatloss-while-driving with the heatgain-while-charging.   Also I suppose he could run in the low-band of SOC rather than in the high-band, as you'll charge at 50 kWh if you're below 20% SOC and (I suspect) get more Joule heating while charging than if you're at 70% SOC where your charge-rate will be 20 kWh.   But... if you charge above 80% SOC you'll spend so much extra time at the charger (with charge-rates below 10 kWh) that even a Leaf's battery would probably have time to cool a bit... and certainly the fan (plus the heatpump) on the e-NV200 would have more time to do its cooling... so quite an analytic puzzle *if* (as in the case of Bjorn's roadtrip) there are charge-points every 30 km or so... whereas most long roadtrips in NZ have to cope with the occasional leg of 60 km or more...

 

Case in point: about a year ago, I (recklessly, in hindsight!) drove my 2013 Leaf (with its ten-bar 24 kWh battery) over the Desert Road at nighttime.  The temp was hovering around 0, and an under-temp warning light came on (possibly when it was slightly sub-zero, I really don't recall).   But... I wasn't worried about under-temp as my batteries started that leg a bit hot, maybe about 40 degrees... and ended that leg significantly *cooler* (maybe about 30 degrees) even though I was driving at motorway speed.   That cooling was handy for my next charge... 

 

 


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