The Condition of Our State Highways

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Technofreak

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#285784 17-May-2021 22:55

Has anyone else noticed the deteriorating condition of many of our state highways?

We drove the SH5 Napier/Taupo road in October last year and my wife and I both commented on the poor state of that road in some sections. I see recently there is a proposal to reduce the speed limit on that road to 80kph using accident statistics as the reason. Greg Murphy was also in the news regarding SH 5 complaining about the condition of the road and stating the speed limit wasn't the problem. Having seen the state of the road I agree with him and say it's fair to say the condition of the road is a major factor and speed is not necessarily a factor.

SH 5 isn't the only state highway with issues. SH 1 north of Taupo has some issues as well. The new expressway north of Hamilton isn't too flash in places and drew strong criticism from a trucking company owner recently. No doubt there are plenty of other examples fellow Geekzoners are aware of.

Is the problem a number of heavy trucks on the road especially the trucks over 44 tonnes or is it that the road taxes are not being spent on the roads? I know the truckies complain about how much money they spend on road user charges with the inference they don't get value for money.

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#2708742 17-May-2021 23:25

Those HPMV & 50Max trucks have lots of axles, limiting the load on any single axle. I think the idea is that the damage to the roads form those trucks is not excessive.

My general feeling is that the NZ approach to roading is to keep short term costs low, rather than looking for the long term optimal soultion.

Regarding some of the expressways, there have been outright errors made with the pavement design, were the substrate is no behaving as expected. This is not poor maintance, rather repairs to remedy a defective design.

mattwnz

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#2708743 17-May-2021 23:42

We have had a huge population increase in NZ over the last decade, and a lot more traffic on the roads as a result. Plus more tourism. Yet we haven't really increased the number of roads between cities and towns. Theoretically this would all require roads to be more regularly repaired and resurfaced, but I wonder if that is occurring?

tdgeek

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#2708766 18-May-2021 06:30

mattwnz:

We have had a huge population increase in NZ over the last decade, and a lot more traffic on the roads as a result. Plus more tourism. Yet we haven't really increased the number of roads between cities and towns. Theoretically this would all require roads to be more regularly repaired and resurfaced, but I wonder if that is occurring?

We dont want taxes. Unsure where the funding will come from. We could have a concerted effort on roads, funded by all road users, but EV's don't want that, road transport companies dont want that, no one wants to contribute. So, we have what we have.

Jase2985

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#2708826 18-May-2021 08:24

Was speaking with a Downer rep the other day about the surface replacement done at the end of the road. They propose the design to council, council either accept that design or they say its too expensive. they go for the cheap option and within 3 weeks the chipseal is de-laminating.

Its exactly as scott3 said "My general feeling is that the NZ approach to roading is to keep short term costs low, rather than looking for the long term optimal soultion."

happens everywere, build a few new motorways in Auckland a 2 lanes each way, within 5 years they are at capacity. Spend the time and a little bit extra money from the get go and make the road base 3 lanes each way wide, and just use the 3rd lane as a hard shoulder/bus only lane. when traffic gets to the poinbt of outgrowing the 2 lanes each way seal and open the 3rd lane. the extra cost is nothing in the scheme of things, but its way less disruption and cost doing it that way then having another year of roadworks while they widen the road.

Short sightedness is all it is. and people complaining at the short term cost with out knowing what it could cost long term.

tdgeek

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#2708827 18-May-2021 08:31

Your point is 100% correct but what about funding? Can't increase taxes, can't increase rates

elbrownos

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#2708830 18-May-2021 08:34

I live in South Waikato and roads around here are always falling it bits, it's to do with the geology.

The central North Island is covered in pumice sand from the Taupo eruption and it's very difficult to build a durable road on top of.

It's also crap for gardening.

shrub

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#2708832 18-May-2021 08:56

Its the way we repair and maintain the roads that's the issue. Too often its the cheapest viable short term solution that will win the job. Which means patch tar and chip. This will fall apart within months and need redoing.

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#2708833 18-May-2021 08:56

tdgeek:

Your point is 100% correct but what about funding? Can't increase taxes, can't increase rates

I think the amount we are taxed (especially in AKL) for fuel along with RUCs and other road-related taxes should be properly allocated to the roading system, instead of being absorbed into the general tax pool and reallocated to non-road uses.

I think there'd be enough coming in to cover the roading needs, but it's not being appropriately allocated.

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backfiah

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#2708838 18-May-2021 09:35

Maybe if we had decent public transport so we weren't using several-tonne vehicles to move one or two people, we wouldn't have to repair the roads as often...not to mention, greatly reduce our emissions and energy use. The roading budget in NZ is insane as it is.

Technofreak

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#2708839 18-May-2021 09:36

tdgeek:

We dont want taxes. Unsure where the funding will come from. We could have a concerted effort on roads, funded by all road users, but EV's don't want that, road transport companies dont want that, no one wants to contribute. So, we have what we have.

With the exception of EV's we do have a concerted effort to fund our roads. There is tax on the petrol we use and RUC for the diesel vehicles. The trucking companies pay a prodigious amount of RUC. to the point they are complaining they are not getting value for money, ergo, the money is going elsewhere or being poorly managed.

I think we have what we have for two reasons. I don't think the money raised in road taxes is all spent on the roads. Then of the money that is spent it isn't spent wisely. I fear there is too much of penny wise pound foolish with the way we go for the cheapest price. We end up paying twice or even thrice.

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boosacnoodle

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#2708841 18-May-2021 09:41

Jase2985:

happens everywere, build a few new motorways in Auckland a 2 lanes each way, within 5 years they are at capacity. Spend the time and a little bit extra money from the get go and make the road base 3 lanes each way wide, and just use the 3rd lane as a hard shoulder/bus only lane. when traffic gets to the poinbt of outgrowing the 2 lanes each way seal and open the 3rd lane. the extra cost is nothing in the scheme of things, but its way less disruption and cost doing it that way then having another year of roadworks while they widen the road.

Have you heard of "induced demand"?

Technofreak

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#2708842 18-May-2021 09:42

backfiah:

Maybe if we had decent public transport so we weren't using several-tonne vehicles to move one or two people, we wouldn't have to repair the roads as often...not to mention, greatly reduce our emissions and energy use. The roading budget in NZ is insane as it is.

What do you define as a decent public transport system?

Is it one that provides a regular connection (every 30 minutes to one hour during the main part of the day) between main centres allowing people to travel back and forth for work and other business activities?

You need that level of service for public transport to work properly. Unfortunately we don't have the population to support that level of service. Hence we do what we are doing.

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backfiah

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#2708843 18-May-2021 09:48

Technofreak:

backfiah:

Maybe if we had decent public transport so we weren't using several-tonne vehicles to move one or two people, we wouldn't have to repair the roads as often...not to mention, greatly reduce our emissions and energy use. The roading budget in NZ is insane as it is.

What do you define as a decent public transport system?

Is it one that provides a regular connection (every 30 minutes to one hour during the main part of the day) between main centres allowing people to travel back and forth for work and other business activities?

You need that level of service for public transport to work properly. Unfortunately we don't have the population to support that level of service. Hence we do what we are doing.

What makes you think we don't have the population to support that? Based on the number of cars I see on SH1 at all times of the day, I don't think it'd be hard to fill up a train if it was fast and reliable (i.e. we invested in the rail infrastructure!).

47% of NZTA's spend is on new roads at 1.3 billion per year. Imagine if we spent that on track realignment, passing loops, and electrification...

Geektastic

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#2708844 18-May-2021 09:48

Funny you should mention this.

Last week I drove from Auckland to Wellington via Napier. All the way, the state of the roads made me feel as though the nation was falling apart at the seams. I said so to my wife on my return and she commented that it felt like a lot of money was being spent on things with no visible outcome.

frankv

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#2708846 18-May-2021 09:53

Whilst I agree with the comments above, there may be a covid aspect... last year we lost 2 prime road-repair months. I suspect that we probably haven't caught up on that. And the booming post-covid economy will have increased the amount of freight on the roads.

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