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Justmeasking

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#293798 14-Feb-2022 11:17
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Hey guys, I need a little advice on private parking enforcement. This situation is a little confusing, so please bare with me and this post is going to be very long.

So this private parking is for staff parking space or anyone staying in the area for a full day [Sylvia Park]. I booked my park, paid full amount of parking fee. However, I made a simple typo mistake with my rego number, I typed one number wrong [eg. supposed to be *644 but I accidentally typed *664]. When the parking enforcement people sent me the 1st notice [$65 fine], that is when I realised my error. So of course I put forward my appeal right away explaining the matter including that I made two other mistakes [I backed tracked and realised I did it 3 times!].

Note: Car perk is a plate recognistion technology. Also, the booking website saves my details, so when I would book it auto generates my details then I don't have to type it everytime.

Now when they responded, they said. They will "wave the other two but stand the first one, because it apparently had created a lot of administration for them and that because I did it three times. Now bare in mind that in accordance to their 'T's&C's', the fee I paid for my parking [$6] is for their administration work.

Also on their response "I have to pay that $65 in 7 days for their offer settlement to be in effect".

I called Citizens Advice Bureau to get an advice, they said I can 'refuse to pay it', speak to the enforcement people. If that doesn't work, take them to FairGo and Disputes Tribunal or Consummer Protection NZ.

At this point I was getting anxious, because I do feel that for a very minor error, I'm being charged for a huge amount when I paid in full for my parking.

Anyway, I did as was adviced. I contact the organistation, I literally pleaded that I couldn't afford to pay $65, which I honestly couldn't and it was during Christmas which is an expensive time of year.

I apologised for the mistake and if it happens again, I will do my due dilegent to pay for it [probably the wrong words to use on my part]. Anyway, I couldn't do much about it.

I sent my pleading email. Which was ignored 6-7 times until I said to 'not ignore my email'. This is where they then got back to me, that unless I can prove I have not breach their condition of 'I must put in the correct rego number' [Not written anywhere however is if I did, I will be fined]. There will be 'no' further correspondence from them, unless I paid the amount due, further charges will be incur and will be refer to debt collection.

So I challenge it, studied their T's&C's etc. After that I heard no more from them, no response to my challenge email whatsoever.

I felt threatened, for me it basically says 'Pay up or pay more and bad credit under your name'.

Fast forward, few weeks later. I recieved another notice, they have now added $20 extra for late payment, its now $85 and I must pay within 14 days. [According to Private parking code of conduct] They must send me a reminder notice within 28 days of the first initial one [adding another 14 days]. But they didn't send me a reminder letter, they went straight to charging more.

First, when the notice was sent with the additional charges, [issued on the 10th of dec] I got it on the 28th of dec, well past 14 days of their payment period to be made. So it gave me no time to do anything about it.

Second, the two other notices arrived, issued on the 17th of dec [I got all three letters in the same day of the obove notice and these were the other two mistakes. I thought, oh shiittake mushroom [another two $85 notices]. That's now 3!!

Third, full mode panick attack! I did some online research, it turns out and according to 'Private Parking Code of Practice' when sending a additional charges notice, the Enforcement company should give another 21 days for payment but they only gave me 14 days.

Lastly, I think they intentionally delayed sending me those notices so that I would not have time to argue them which means they can charge me more?

Then, another letter came in the mailbox. This time it was from a debt collector, guess what, I now owe them $405. Shiitake bloody mushroom!

Right away, I got in contact with Consummer Protection, Commerce Commision and Disputes Tribunal. I asked them if I have a case and no one, I mean 'no one' can give me a straight aswer.

I had no choice, I sent the enforcement organisation an email that I would be making a claim of $405. Report them to Commerce Commision and Fairgo for what I believe is unjustifiable.

Enforcement organisation got back to me, saying their "Action and cost is accordance to with the terms and condition on display in the car park and get myself familiarised with 'UK judgements issued in Cavendish Square Holdings BV v Talal El Makdessi & ParkingEye Ltd v Bevis. The same approach was followed in the NZ Supreme Court in 127 Hobson Street Ltd v Honey Bees Preschool Ltd".

What on earth! More online reaserch.

Finally, I managed to get in contact with Community Law Centre. When they said, this can be considered unreasonable. I sighed in relief I thought, finally someone is willing to help me.

However, hope came crushing down. Community Law could not help me, its out of their funded service.

I just am not willing to pay $65 [or $405 for that matter] on top of the parking fees I've already paid for. I think I correctly reserve that spot I paid for, right?

Now I don't know what to do. I will still push forward with my claim. So hoping someone can help me with the law here, I'd be really greatful.

Please no hateful comment, like; You should have checked it properly. I don't need it right now. I'm already stressed out and I'm only asking for advice.

If you need more info, I'd be happy to provide :)

Thank you!

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backfiah
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  #2868098 14-Feb-2022 11:24
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Tell the debt collector that you dispute the debt as they must stop the process: https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/borrowing-money/debt-collection-repossession/

 

If they still want to pursue it, then it is up to the private parking company to do that e.g. through Disputes Tribunal.

 

https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-26-credit-and-debt/guarantors/disputing-that-you-owe-a-debt/




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  #2868129 14-Feb-2022 12:00
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Bit confused... you say you made 3 mistakes ? As in used their service 3x and entered the wrong rego 3x at 3 different times ? If so, them charging you for one is fair enough.

 

Just remember as well, you're not actually fighting the people on the other end, you're fighting the system that "dosent make mistakes" and the staff are just following process.... try to interfere with process and all sorts of fun occurs as you're now finding out unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

 

 





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shk292
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  #2868133 14-Feb-2022 12:04
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It's still an unreasonable charge, doesn't matter how many times it has happened.  And since the form auto-completes, if you get it wrong once you'll likely do the same again.

 

I'm not a lawyer but (based on similar posts and reading about this):

 

 - tell the debt collection agency this is a disputed bill, which means they can't touch it

 

 - tell the parking people very clearly you consider the charge unreasonable and won't be paying.  You've paid for parking; admin costs are their problem

 

 - they will now need to take you to the disputes tribunal or similar to extract money from you.  Chances are they won't bother




floydbloke
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  #2868287 14-Feb-2022 17:18
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Justmeasking: ...., so please bare with me ...

 

If you want to write forum posts in the nude then that's your business but I prefer to do my reading fully clothed sorry. 😜

 

 





Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?


insane
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  #2868340 14-Feb-2022 19:10
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When you see these things go to judgement they look at what is "fair" and what is "reasonable".

They presumably didn't miss out on any custom as a result of your admin error and therefore I can't see how they have incurred any costs over and above them following a silly internal process to the letter.

Some good advice above about placing the payment into dispute.

Sounds like they have cost you more time/effort/stress, I'm sure disputes tribunal will rule in the favour of the little guy, especially if they don't bother showing up.

kiwiharry
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  #2868367 14-Feb-2022 21:06
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I think it would be best if the OP lodged the Disputes Tribunal claim. Otherwise this will get drawn out and cause the OP more stress over a longer period.




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Wheelbarrow01
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  #2868436 14-Feb-2022 23:39
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kiwiharry: I think it would be best if the OP lodged the Disputes Tribunal claim. Otherwise this will get drawn out and cause the OP more stress over a longer period.

 

No I disagree. If the parking company think they have a case, it's up to them to lodge a claim at the tribunal (and pay the lodgment fee).

 

I agree with the other advice above though:

 

1. Tell the debt collector in writing that the debt is disputed and that they need to suspend enforcement action immediately and refer the matter back to the parking company.

 

2. Tell the parking company in writing that despite your error in entering the registration number, you nonetheless paid the correct fees at the time of parking on all three occasions. Therefore they have suffered no loss in any of the three instances, so the penalty fees are of no effect, and despite your error you are not responsible for paying for their administration or enforcement costs - those are just the cost of them doing business. Also tell them that if they don't agree, they are welcome to request a court hearing (and pay the lodgment fee) and you will await the summons and see them in court.

 

3. If you receive a summons, go to court and present the evidence that you paid, and evidence that you've already explained this to the parking company. A judge will likely find in your favour.

 

It's almost certain the parking company won't bother to request a hearing, or if they do, they probably won't turn up. It's really not worth their effort and expense to pay someone to attend court just to collect $65 (or even $405 in your case).

 

They are just doing what they always do - strong-arming the little guy and hoping that you'll just get scared and pay it. You don't have to just roll over and take it though, despite what their T&Cs may assert.

 

As an aside, my wife got an infringement ticket from Wilsons around 6 months ago after her payment app failed. She didn't pay on time and they tracked her down using the LTSA register and sent a reminder letter to our address. She wrote an email pleading her case (even though it was well outside the timeframe they allowed for an appeal) and they waived the fee. Straight after that I filled in the online form to have her car's ownership details withheld from the LTSA register. Fast forward a month or so and she got another infringement ticket on her windscreen in the same carpark - this time it was her error in forgetting to press start in the payment app. I told her not to pay it and just wait to see if they send a reminder letter to our address. It's been around 4 months and so far they've not sent a reminder - presumably because LTSA won't release her private ownership details. Ironically Wilsons already have written correspondence from her regarding the previous ticket for that rego number - and that correspondence lists her name, address and phone number. She still uses the same carpark almost every day. The clearly need a better record keeping system... 


 
 
 

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networkn
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  #2868460 15-Feb-2022 07:52
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Listen to @wheelbarrow01 this is the way to resolve this. Steps 1 and 2 will put this to bed almost certainly.

 

 


timmmay
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  #2868490 15-Feb-2022 09:35
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I would be careful telling any debt collector what to do. You can tell them the debt is disputed, but don't tell them to suspend collection actions, they know that even if they don't always do it.


Justmeasking

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  #2868546 15-Feb-2022 11:57
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Thak you Wheelborrow01 and everyone for your advice.

Quick question, I have already emailed and informed the Parking company that I will be making a claim against them. Should I email them that they can do it instead?

When I emailed the Enforcement business about taking them to the Disputes Tribunal, I CC'd the dept collector company. So they are aware that there's a dispute still going but I just recieved another letter from the dept collector about the fine, in bold letters [Payment Due: NOW].

This is really stressful to be honest. I've done so much research online about this, spent hours of my time on the internet, called so many people; Cosummer Protection, Citizen Advice Bureau, Commerce Commision, Disputes Tribunal, Community Law and all the other oraganistaion I can think of. I had more answer and better advice here than I got from all those supposed legal organisation.

Thank you again!

networkn
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  #2868547 15-Feb-2022 12:00
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Stop stressing. Follow WB's advice everything will be fine :)

 

 


wellygary
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  #2868564 15-Feb-2022 12:11
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Wheelbarrow01:

 

They clearly need a better record keeping system... 

 

 

If Wilson parking ( or their flunkees at PES) started creating an inhouse database of vehicle registrations and addresses, I suspect the privacy commissioner would be down on them like a ton of bricks,  :)

 

From their point of view its probably just easier the use the NZTA MV register (and suffer the few that have ticked "don't share my data")


networkn
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  #2868565 15-Feb-2022 12:12
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timmmay:

 

If you've said you're going to take them to disputes you might as well go through with it IMHO. Reversing your position might not help.

 

 

On what grounds would he have to start a case? He isn't the claimant. It's them that need to take action. He tells them it's in dispute, following WB's advice, and they will either forget about it, which is most likely, or they will take it to DT where they will get laughed out of the room and told to stop their nonsense.

 

They have lost nothing due to his minor error, they haven't a leg to stand on.

 

 


timmmay
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  #2868569 15-Feb-2022 12:24
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Disputes tribunal says they can help with disputed debts. Community Law says the following. Based on this I believe either party can make the claim. I've also had advice that either party can make the claim in the past.

 

What can I do if I disagree that I owe the money?

 

 

 

You should tell the lender or debt collection agency as soon as possible that you dispute the debt and tell them why. Do this in writing and keep a copy of the letter.

 

If the debt is $30,000 or less, you can take a claim to the Disputes Tribunal, where you ask them to make an order that you don’t owe the disputed amount (see the chapter “The Disputes Tribunal”).

 

 


networkn
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  #2868570 15-Feb-2022 12:26
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timmmay:

 

Disputes tribunal says they can help with disputed debts. Community Law says the following. Based on this I believe either party can make the claim. I've also had advice that either party can make the claim in the past.

 

What can I do if I disagree that I owe the money?

 

You should tell the lender or debt collection agency as soon as possible that you dispute the debt and tell them why. Do this in writing and keep a copy of the letter.

 

If the debt is $30,000 or less, you can take a claim to the Disputes Tribunal, where you ask them to make an order that you don’t owe the disputed amount (see the chapter “The Disputes Tribunal”).

 

 

That puts the cost on him, and the onus to handle the admin.

 

He should follow the advice provided and let them come to him. They cannot do him any harm whilst it's in dispute.

 

If the Government wanted to do something useful during it's time, it could have put an end to this type of business practice.

 

 

 


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