Hyundai Kona electric elite - dead battery options

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rogercruse

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#295510 3-Apr-2022 00:09

Picked up my Hyundai Kona electric elite and drove home. Car put on overnight charge,

When managed to spend the next three weeks in Auckland hospital. Unable to drive until doctors say its OK, my wife will drive until I'm allowed to.

After our first test drive, we left something running and 12-volt battery was dead in the morning. Fortunately, we had jump-leads, etc. and got things sorted.

My questions:

12-volt battery dis-charge issue is known to Hyundai but not a big enough issue?

How true?, Impact on their sales, etc?
Is there an alternative to using jump-leads to get life into 12-volt battery?

How much?, how effective?
Is there a device (e.g. car plug-in & software) to monitor 12-volt battery life, etc?

Again, how much?, how effective?

PS. Thanks for positive comments about my 'time off sick' , I will reply as promised, but later.

michaelmurfy

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#2895964 3-Apr-2022 01:39

It sounds like the main HV battery may have gone flat for the 12v to go flat - normally, with EV's the 12v battery is charged off the main HV battery pack. It is however important to not tap into the battery by anything except the accessory socket.

What kind of load did you have plugged in or running? I'm rather surprised your 12v battery would have gone flat like this. Is the car brand new or second hand? How are you charging it?

Lastly, if you're not using the car and you're at home it is recommended just to plug it in if you can and leave it plugged in. I do so with my Tesla and just set the charge limit to 70% for most days - it is important for HV battery health especially on the Kona's that you don't charge to 100% and instead charge between 50-70% for normal daily driving and only charge to 100% for long trips (and even then you may want to avoid doing that and use ABRP to just charge to what is required to save time charging on the trip). This keeps the 12v battery charged also.

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Batman

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#2895969 3-Apr-2022 05:30

my Leaf does not charge the 12V when car not running

when Leaf running it doesn't charge 12V well

= bad code

i have a Ctek ...

RunningMan

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#2895970 3-Apr-2022 06:04

It's no different to pretty much any other car, EV or otherwise. If left for weeks unused, the 12v battery will be depleted. How long depends on the parasitic drain, and battery condition.

EVs tend to have a far smaller capacity 12v battery (as not needed for engine starting) so will drain quicker. They also have more circuits kept alive when off (cellular modem for internet comms etc.) so the load is higher. They don't generally charge the 12v from the traction battery unless the car is switched on, although some will charge it as the traction battery is charged. Plently of reports of Teslas doing the same thing if left for weeks at a time.

Just like an ICE vehicle, if it's sitting unused for weeks or months, then the battery will need charging occasionally. Either turn the vehicle on to charge (like an ICE) or get a seperate battery charger.

timmmay

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#2895974 3-Apr-2022 06:43

A battery charger is a good investment. I use my old Corolla mostly for short school runs, before my son started school it would sit idle for a month since I'm not going to work. I put it on the battery charger every 4-6 weeks to top the battery off.

After much research I got the Super Cheap Auto 7 stage 10A charger in 2018 for $130 - they have a range, you don't need the biggest especially for an EV. CTek are also a good brand.

Dingbatt

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#2895982 3-Apr-2022 07:44

RunningMan:

Just like an ICE vehicle, if it's sitting unused for weeks or months, then the battery will need charging occasionally. Either turn the vehicle on to charge (like an ICE) or get a seperate battery charger.

In the extended lockdown last year two of the four family vehicles required battery replacements. I asked the specialist shop we got the batteries from how business had been. “Pretty good” was the response because the batteries in cars that were being used every day were able to retain just enough charge to keep going. But leave them for a week and they give up the ghost.
Both the batteries replaced were the oem ones. So the Ford Focus one had lasted 5 years and the Toyota Camry Hybrid one a very creditable 10 years. Mind you the Toyota battery was a deep cycle one that was never subjected to starter loads because it’s purpose was to close the traction battery relays and run the 12V systems.

It would be interesting to know what parasitic draw there is in your Kona while it’s sitting. If the car is virtually new and there isn’t a whole lot of parasitic draw, it may be worth getting a battery specialist to check the health of it.

@MichaelMurfy, not all Teslas should only be charged to 80%. Mine has a LiFePO battery which Tesla recommend I charge to 100%. And, like yours, a Li-Ion 12V battery.

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morrisk

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#2896008 3-Apr-2022 09:06

In my Hyundai Ioniq EV there is an option to turn on the 12V auxiliary battery saver as referred to in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd0yxRv9QqY

There may be this option also in the Kona? I have this option enabled all the time and this guards against the 12V going flat when the car is not used for a time.

Batman

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#2896035 3-Apr-2022 09:34

might be a good time to resurrect this video

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gzt

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#2896037 3-Apr-2022 09:36

Did you really leave something on? The accessory battery may have been on the low side when you picked it up from the dealer. In any case, there are many modern cars that don't get much more than three weeks idle.

Batman

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#2896040 3-Apr-2022 09:38

rogercruse:

Is there a device (e.g. car plug-in & software) to monitor 12-volt battery life, etc?

Again, how much?, how effective?

see video above, at 3 minutes in.

very.

Scott3

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#2896100 3-Apr-2022 11:06

rogercruse: Picked up my Hyundai Kona electric elite and drove home. Car put on overnight charge, When managed to spend the next three weeks in Auckland hospital. Unable to drive until doctors say its OK, my wife will drive until I'm allowed to. After our first test drive, we left something running and 12-volt battery was dead in the morning. Fortunately, we had jump-leads, etc. and got things sorted. My questions:

12-volt battery dis-charge issue is known to Hyundai but not a big enough issue?

How true?, Impact on their sales, etc?
Is there an alternative to using jump-leads to get life into 12-volt battery?

How much?, how effective?
Is there a device (e.g. car plug-in & software) to monitor 12-volt battery life, etc?

Again, how much?, how effective?

PS. Thanks for positive comments about my 'time off sick' , I will reply as promised, but later.

Extended family members have owned a Kona electric elite since December 2019, and I don't think they have had any issues with the 12V battery at all.

The car will charge the 12v (lead acid) battery at regular when parked. You can see when it is charging as there is a green light near the front badge that turns on.

The firmware change that was made in response to the traction battery fire risk drama, dramatically increased the number of times a day the 12v battery charges. Guess keeping the 12v battery in tip top condition is important for whatever BMS / monitoring changes were made in response to the issue with fires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rorGxxebL8 (but I have never seen that message on the dash).

1: I wasn't aware of any 12v discharge issue. But if it happens again with nothing left on, I would take the car back to have the issue investigated.

Pretty normal that leaving something on in a car will result in a flat battery. (one of my cars has auto off headlights that turn off when you turn off the car and open the drivers door. Twice I have had to park right up against something and exit the other side, and forgotten this, and hence come back to a car with a flat battery).

2: Yes.

Hooking it up to a wall charger (ideally a smart one, I have this: https://www.cteknz.co.nz/charger/product/mxs-5-0 is the best way, Put's much less stress on the electrical system than a jump start, and if you leave it on for several hours, will bring the battery back up to fully charged.
Jump pack: I got one of these for each of our cars after one of the headlight incidents mentioned above: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000190510712.html functions similar to a jumper leads, but getting a donor car near is not needed.

3: A simple volt meter will give a good indication of the state of charge of a 12v battery while not charging or under load. (i.e. a multimeter).

12V battery recommendations | Speak EV - Electric Car Forums

You can also get load testers to see how the battery preforms under load:

https://www.bunnings.co.nz/ozito-6-12v-100-amp-battery-load-tester_p0290796

(important for non electric cars, where the battery needs to be able to crank the engine).

Sadly running a capacity test (Ah or Wh) isn't something that can be done at home with cheap gear.

Scott3

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#2896102 3-Apr-2022 11:11

RunningMan:

It's no different to pretty much any other car, EV or otherwise. If left for weeks unused, the 12v battery will be depleted. How long depends on the parasitic drain, and battery condition.

EVs tend to have a far smaller capacity 12v battery (as not needed for engine starting) so will drain quicker. They also have more circuits kept alive when off (cellular modem for internet comms etc.) so the load is higher. They don't generally charge the 12v from the traction battery unless the car is switched on, although some will charge it as the traction battery is charged. Plently of reports of Teslas doing the same thing if left for weeks at a time.

Just like an ICE vehicle, if it's sitting unused for weeks or months, then the battery will need charging occasionally. Either turn the vehicle on to charge (like an ICE) or get a seperate battery charger.

The Kona electric does charge the 12v battery occasionaly when the car is parked. Green light in the fount badge comes on when it does so.

Zeon

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#2896692 4-Apr-2022 11:39

I have a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and can confirm that the DC-DC converter that charges the 12v battery from the traction battery is disengaged unless the car is on or the charger is plugged in. There are big relays in the car that use 12v to engage the traction battery to both the DC-DC converter and motors. In fact if the 12v is completely dead, I don't think you can even charge the traction battery as those relays won't be engaged. I'm sure there are people who plug in and are baffled by the fact that if the car is dead, it can't even charge who don't understand about this design.

I'm not sure where they (the relays) are or how much voltage they actually need to engage. Maybe you could string a few AAs together and connect the 12v terminals to this and get enough juice to engage the relays and get the Type 1 or Chademo charger hitting the traction battery if you really had to....

Speedtest 2019-10-14

MikeAqua

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#2896757 4-Apr-2022 13:46

I've jump started a couple of people in the marina who had EVs with dead 12v batteries. I recently left the Paj unused for three weeks (holiday) and it just started up.

Mike

RunningMan

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#2897261 5-Apr-2022 17:41