Using OpenLoop Chargers

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morrisk

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#298685 7-Jul-2022 11:59

Z Energy have taken over the ChargeNet chargers that were at some Z gas stations e.g. Vivian St Wellington. As I read it this means to use the charger at Z in Vivian St you need to use the OpenLoop app. This requires you to have money added to the app before you can charge. To Top up the app with money it seems you do this with your credit card.

My understanding of credit cards now is that if you use them to add a top up to an app like OpenLoop then the amount you top up starts incurring interest immediately like happens if you draw out cash on the credit card.

This is quite different from the ChargeNet system where your credit card just gets charged with the cost of the the charge you make.

Have I got this correct? Or is there a way to top up the OpenLoop app without using a credit card e.g. by bank transfer this avoiding being charged interest by the credit card company?

Stu

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#2939137 7-Jul-2022 12:04

You shouldn't be charged interest immediately. You're prepaying for power, not topping up a cash card. If you are charged interest as though it's a cash advance, I'd be complaining to the banking ombudsman.

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morrisk

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#2939146 7-Jul-2022 12:32

Thanks - I have now looked more carefully at my banks credit card information and I assume that such a payment to OpenLoop would not be classed as a "quasi-cash" payment but more like a top up of a cell phone and therefore no interest would be payable if you pay off your credit card full amount on the due date.

Still you end up having to estimate how much money you will need to transfer before you charge so need to add more than you think you need and then OpenLoop get the benefit of the cash left over at the end of the charge until your next charge. I much prefer the ChargeNet model.

Obraik

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#2939175 7-Jul-2022 13:39

Hopefully OpenLoop get rid of the Pre-Pay system they currently use.

Moving to Paywave on the charger would be the ideal solution.

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jonathan18

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#2939177 7-Jul-2022 13:44

@morrisk - how does one know if a charger is run by Open Loop before you get there? Looking at Plugshare I can't see mention of the actual owner. I see there's an Open Loop app, but it seems weird to have to download yet another app just to find out whether you need the app!

We're about to get an EV that has a decent range (unlike our Leaf!) so charging will be important, hence I'd like to be sure I'm prepared for this, eg have an account created and credit loaded before turning up to use one. (But ideally I'd also look to avoid these chargers, given the silly prepayment requirement.)

Thanks!

Obraik

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#2939181 7-Jul-2022 13:50

The only reliable way is to get the app. Currently the three charging networks are ChargeNet, Tesla and OpenLoop so it's not a huge amount to keep track of for now. But yeah, this is why they should just have PayWave payment on the front of them so we don't need to have an app for each and a handful of fobs.

I wouldn't bother putting credit on the app until you need it. When I went to test out the Rolleston one I added the minimum $10 credit while I was parked at the charger and then it was ready instantly.

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morrisk

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#2939207 7-Jul-2022 14:33

jonathan18:

@morrisk - how does one know if a charger is run by Open Loop before you get there? Looking at Plugshare I can't see mention of the actual owner. I see there's an Open Loop app, but it seems weird to have to download yet another app just to find out whether you need the app!

We're about to get an EV that has a decent range (unlike our Leaf!) so charging will be important, hence I'd like to be sure I'm prepared for this, eg have an account created and credit loaded before turning up to use one. (But ideally I'd also look to avoid these chargers, given the silly prepayment requirement.)

Thanks!

Good question although a clue will be if the charger is at a Z station. The OpenLoop system is what Z Energy have adopted for their charging network that they are putting in place and I assume they system will be at Z gas stations. They have a number up and running already where they have taken over the ChargeNet ones that were at Z stations. The only one that is not in the Z station is the one at Turangi and this changes from ChargeNet to OpenLoop (Z) on September 30 and I assume it will be in the same place - near the Z station but not part of the forecourt.

Also I note that the OpenLoop app does not seem to show the location of their chargers obviously so you can't even see if they are being used. Again this contrasts with ChargeNet where this is exactly what you see when you open the ChargeNet app. Makes it easy to decide whether to stop and charge or go to the next charger without have to visit the charger to check if it is being used.

jonathan18

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#2939230 7-Jul-2022 15:17

So I've downloaded the app and created an account (the only way to see its listings), and it seems to be fairly early days, yeah? Hardly anything in the SI, and some of that is weirdly loaded (each Rolleston charger in the same location is listed separately). Doesn't have the Vivian St charger listed (but nor is it on Chargenet) - so how would you even know from its app that it even exists?

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RunningMan

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#2939233 7-Jul-2022 15:26

morrisk:

Also I note that the OpenLoop app does not seem to show the location of their chargers obviously so you can't even see if they are being used.

iOS app shows a map with them all. Purple means in use. Blue available. Grey broken.

jonathan18

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#2939235 7-Jul-2022 15:34

RunningMan:

iOS app shows a map with them all. Purple means in use. Blue available. Grey broken.

That's the same with the Android app (clicking on the symbol will show 'charging' or 'available' of 'unavailable' to reiterate this), but that doesn't explain why at least one key charger (Vivian St, Wellington) isn't even listed. And is it correct that they have basically nothing in the SI?

Obraik

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#2939294 7-Jul-2022 16:49

jonathan18:

That's the same with the Android app (clicking on the symbol will show 'charging' or 'available' of 'unavailable' to reiterate this), but that doesn't explain why at least one key charger (Vivian St, Wellington) isn't even listed. And is it correct that they have basically nothing in the SI?

Yes, up until recently OpenLoop was mostly a Waikato based network. The Rolleston Z station is their first "hypercharger" in NZ, capable of 180kW (if you have a 900v EV - a Tesla is only up to 400v). To be honest, I'm surprised Z didn't just buy OpenLoop.

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morrisk

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#2939302 7-Jul-2022 17:05

OK I see - I am in Wellington and was looking for the Vivian St charger to show - as you say it doesn't show. However on moving the map around to look at other parts of NZ I now see the chargers!

afe66

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#2939827 8-Jul-2022 16:47

I want legislation to prevent different rates being charged depending on how its paid for.

Otherwise it will result in multiple apps for multiple chargers and the complete nightmare that you see in the uk.

On a youtube video I saw today about a new massive charging station in the uk. The rate if you paid cash was 51p per kilowhat hour but if you use "their" app it was 31p/kw. ie 40% price difference.

OK you dont want to pay a fee to chargenet. OK well I pay with my credit card and you can charge 2%

Imagine if they treated petrol the same way..

If we want ev to take off, silly things like this should not be allowed. If they want to introduce a subscription system such as per pay a certain amount per month for lesser per unit cost it should be X units free then charge at the cash rate. I for one wont be using Z unless I have to and if I do, I certainly wont be buying a coffee.

SaltyNZ

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#2946772 27-Jul-2022 07:03

afe66:

Imagine if they treated petrol the same way..

They do. Roll up randomly, pay Xc/L. Do your shopping at the supermarket, pay Yc/L. Have that AA rewards card, pay Zc/L. The confusion and lock-in is the point, not a side-effect.

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Scott3

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#2946805 27-Jul-2022 09:33

SaltyNZ:

afe66:

Imagine if they treated petrol the same way..

They do. Roll up randomly, pay Xc/L. Do your shopping at the supermarket, pay Yc/L. Have that AA rewards card, pay Zc/L. The confusion and lock-in is the point, not a side-effect.

And, at the costco petrol station in west auckland, it is strictly members only ($55/year).