NZ Employment Court: Uber drivers are employees and not independent contracors

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PolicyGuy

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#302057 25-Oct-2022 15:36

A landmark court ruling has paved the way for New Zealand Uber drivers to gain employment rights.
The Employment Court has found that four current and former Uber drivers were employees and not independent contractors. ...
“Each of the plaintiff drivers was in an employment relationship when carrying out driving work for Uber and is entitled to a declaration of status accordingly,” the court ruled

😮

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https://thespinoff.co.nz/live-updates/25-10-2022/court-rules-uber-drivers-employees-not-contractors

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#2987845 25-Oct-2022 15:40

Good but watch Uber fares rise!

Lias

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#2987858 25-Oct-2022 15:48

Linux:

Good but watch Uber fares rise!

And I suspect we can see flow in into Ola, Zoomy, Uber Eats, Deliver Easy, Menulog etc.

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Linux

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#2987876 25-Oct-2022 16:08

Lias:

Linux:

Good but watch Uber fares rise!

And I suspect we can see flow in into Ola, Zoomy, Uber Eats, Deliver Easy, Menulog etc.

@Lias 100% correct

Kyanar

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#2987987 25-Oct-2022 19:00

There is actually a very simple way for Uber to avoid the drivers/delivery partners being deemed employees - exercise less control. Did you know that Uber does not tell the driver where you are going to, or how much they will be paid for your trip, before they can choose to accept or decline it? Did you know that Uber will deactivate drivers ("fire" them) if they cancel on too many jobs, even though the driver was unaware of the destination before accepting it and may be facing a net loss carrying you there?

It's a well accepted fact that if you want to deem someone a contractor, then they by definition must have a degree of autonomy in when they work, and in what manner they work. Failing to provide information necessary to make an informed decision on whether a fare is reasonable to take given the driver's circumstance, and penalising them for cancelling that fare once that information has been provided and deemed unreasonable for the driver to take falls so far on the "employee" side of the fence that the only possible reason any court would have for finding otherwise is a significant regulatory capture (or brown paper bags being exchanged at midnight in a secluded park).

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#2988117 26-Oct-2022 01:05

Uber has announced its intent to appeal.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/477353/uber-to-appeal-against-historic-ruling-against-rideshare-company

I assume this appeal, combined with today's ruling only impacting the 4 drivers who brought it will mean the rest of the gig economy won't really take many actions.

But if Uber looses again in a higher (precedent setting) court, then the impact will be massive.

Although Uber has tolerated a similar ruling in the UK (but they still refuse to use the term employees, setting on "workers"), I doubt much of the gig economy would want to exist under NZ employment laws.

Leaving the choice of either pulling out of NZ, or reworking their businesses to suit traditional employees.

-------

On the latter, Lime scooters would be an example of a business that has gone the employee way of their own accord. Three years back, they relied heavily on "juicers" to collect, charge and re-deploy their e-scooters.

Now the bulk of the work is done by traditional employees and the business model has evolved to suit this.

Three years ago lime was running gen 2 scooters, and had any scooter under 80% (I think) charge at 11pm , collected by the gig workers, charged, and deployed to a carefully chosen location.

These days they are onto gen 4 scooters, with much larger and swap-able batteries. Obviously, battery swapping means a heap less labor then bringing in every scooter to charge, and them being much larger means the workload can be distributed over the day (less need for the scooters to be nearly fully charged every morning. But the high value of the batteries for swapping means they need to be allocated to somebody on a roster, rather than somebody who is going to work when they feel like.

Handle9

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#2988123 26-Oct-2022 04:00

Lias:
Linux:

Good but watch Uber fares rise!

And I suspect we can see flow in into Ola, Zoomy, Uber Eats, Deliver Easy, Menulog etc.

Excellent. All of them “disrupt” by screwing their “partners” out of a reasonable living.

johno1234

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#2988136 26-Oct-2022 08:01

PolicyGuy:

A landmark court ruling has paved the way for New Zealand Uber drivers to gain employment rights.
The Employment Court has found that four current and former Uber drivers were employees and not independent contractors. ...
“Each of the plaintiff drivers was in an employment relationship when carrying out driving work for Uber and is entitled to a declaration of status accordingly,” the court ruled

😮

Cat: pigeons: heave

https://thespinoff.co.nz/live-updates/25-10-2022/court-rules-uber-drivers-employees-not-contractors

By the usual metrics, the drivers are contractors. They provide their own equipment and set their own hours. I can't think of any employment situation where that happens. The article doesn't include an explanation of the judgement and I expect (not as an expert in these matters) that it will be appealed and overturned. Uber can't afford not to.

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johno1234

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#2988137 26-Oct-2022 08:04

Handle9:

Excellent. All of them “disrupt” by screwing their “partners” out of a reasonable living.

Really? Are they forced to be Uber drivers or doing it of their own free will, entering into an arrangement where they understand they are contactors? There's a big demand out there for courier, bus and truck drivers. If they are being screwed they can go get hired by NZ Bus who will happily train them into their P licence and give them a job,

Handle9

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#2988138 26-Oct-2022 08:12

johno1234:
By the usual metrics, the drivers are contractors. They provide their own equipment and set their own hours. I can't think of any employment situation where that happens. The article doesn't include an explanation of the judgement and I expect (not as an expert in these matters) that it will be appealed and overturned. Uber can't afford not to.

The test is considerably more thorough than you describe it to be. Uber were always likely to lose this one as their “partners” meet many of the legal definitions employees. It’s not the first time they have lost this type of decision and certainly won’t be the last.

Like many of the B2C “disrupters” their business model is built on a foundation of sand.

PolicyGuy

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#2988145 26-Oct-2022 08:33

The full text of the Court Judgement is here: https://www.employmentcourt.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Decisions/2022-NZEmpC-192-E-Tu-Anor-v-Rasier-Ops-BV-Ors-Judgment.pdf

There is an accompanying Press Release here: https://www.employmentcourt.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Decisions/2022-NZEmpC-192-E-Tu-Inc-Anor-v-Rasier-Op-BV-Ors-Media-Release-25.10.22.pdf

The Chief Judge of the Employment Court (Chief Judge Christina Inglis) found that all four drivers were employees of Uber during the periods where they performed transportation services.

The Employment Court highlighted the need to adopt a purposive approach to determining the status of the drivers, having regard to the applicable legislation and its role in protecting vulnerable workers, regulating the labour market, and ensuring the maintenance of minimum standards. It was held that the broader social purpose of the legislative framework must be kept in mind when considering whether a worker is an employee. Thus, the task for the Court is to ascertain whether the individual is within the range of workers to which Parliament intended to extend minimum worker protections.
The Employment Court also reiterated that the question of whether someone is an employee depends on the substance of the relationship and how it operated in practice rather than the label attached to the relationship in the written agreement.

Edit: Formatting

Kyanar

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#2988272 26-Oct-2022 13:39

johno1234:

By the usual metrics, the drivers are contractors. They provide their own equipment and set their own hours. I can't think of any employment situation where that happens. The article doesn't include an explanation of the judgement and I expect (not as an expert in these matters) that it will be appealed and overturned. Uber can't afford not to.

Only someone who hasn't actually done it would make that statement. I've given a couple of examples of ways in which the relationship strongly resembles an employment relationship.

It's about time a court finally called them on their bullshit.

johno1234

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#2988367 26-Oct-2022 19:07

Kyanar:
johno1234:

By the usual metrics, the drivers are contractors. They provide their own equipment and set their own hours. I can't think of any employment situation where that happens. The article doesn't include an explanation of the judgement and I expect (not as an expert in these matters) that it will be appealed and overturned. Uber can't afford not to.

Only someone who hasn't actually done it would make that statement. I've given a couple of examples of ways in which the relationship strongly resembles an employment relationship.

It's about time a court finally called them on their bullshit.

I’ve been a contractor for over 30 years and my accountants regularly test my status against long term multi year projects that could see my arrangement deemed as employment. Providing own tools and setting own hours are usually the top of the check list. The requirements of how I work once onsite are subject to the contract and have never been questioned. This is all based on how New Zealand Inland Revenue have been evaluating taxpayers.

Four drivers out of hundreds have sought this change. Every single one of them entered into their arrangement agreeing specifically to not be employees. Changing your mind and then throwing all the other drivers’ status into question is bullshit.

Handle9

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#2988369 26-Oct-2022 19:10

johno1234: This is all based on how New Zealand Inland Revenue have been evaluating taxpayers.

IRD has nothing to do with employment law. The tests are different.

Eitsop

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#2988375 26-Oct-2022 20:28

Uber is a technological version of the old taxis.. Taxis were independent contractors.. Even then some taxis barely made minimum wage..

There should be some protection for workers where they contract to one company.

Courier Drivers, Uber should be paid minimum hourly rate, annual & sick leave etc, but can contract for providing vehicle & petrol etc

antonknee

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#2988523 27-Oct-2022 02:05

Great, a court finally recognised Uber drivers for what they really are.

As for Uber fares going up - Uber fares are already expensive. And if it means drivers are actually getting paid that’s a win.

In any case, I’ll continue to refuse to support Uber and their scummy business model and approach.

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