Toyota change boss to focus on EVs

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Batman

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#303303 31-Jan-2023 06:43

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-president-akio-toyoda-become-chairman-2023-01-26/

Toyota's chief executive will step down as head of the company his grandfather founded, the automaker said on Thursday, handing over to the leader of its Lexus luxury brand as the Japanese giant struggles to meet the shift to electric vehicles.

Under the 66-year-old Toyoda, who led the company for more than a decade, the automaker has appeared reluctant to embrace electric vehicles, arguing the hybrid technology it pioneered with its once market-leading Prius was a better fit for many drivers.

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#3029847 31-Jan-2023 09:00

Don't assume change until you actually see it ...

From the same article

"will take over from April 1 when Akio Toyoda becomes chairman, it said."

"One Toyota executive, who asked not to be identified, said the automaker was headed for a period of "cloistered rule," referring to the period in Japan's history when a retired emperor continued to call the shots."

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Batman

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#3029880 31-Jan-2023 10:07

maybe, but in his own words to explain the change in leadership "Because of my strong passion for cars, I am an old-fashioned person in regards to digitalization, electric vehicles, and connected cars. I cannot go beyond being a car guy, and that is my limitation," Toyoda told reporters.

but you are right, it seems he's now the chairman as he vacates the CEO role

whatever that means

MikeAqua

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#3029885 31-Jan-2023 10:24

Batman:

maybe, but in his own words to explain the change in leadership "Because of my strong passion for cars, I am an old-fashioned person in regards to digitalization, electric vehicles, and connected cars. I cannot go beyond being a car guy, and that is my limitation," Toyoda told reporters.

but you are right, it seems he's now the chairman as he vacates the CEO role

whatever that means

Provided the boundaries between governance and management are observed, it should be OK.

Toyota get a bit of thrashing on EVs, but people forget they make good use of hybrid systems and forget what a significant car the Prius was. Arguably it helped paved the way for acceptance of EVs.

I'm sure they will adopt BEV tech when it suits them - like they have for all other tech.

Toyoda San's comments do underscore an issue with EV adoption: A different sort of person is passionate about EVs vs conventional vehicles. A 'car guy' is likely to be person that likes mechanical things; enjoys the sound of an engine roaring. An EV person is likely to be passionate about the tech, or the environmental benefit; doesn't mind their vehicle sounding like a Tamiya car.

And the auto industry is full of 'car guys'.

Mike

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#3029891 31-Jan-2023 10:43

MikeAqua:

Provided the boundaries between governance and management are observed, it should be OK.

Toyota get a bit of thrashing on EVs, but people forget they make good use of hybrid systems and forget what a significant car the Prius was. Arguably it helped paved the way for acceptance of EVs.

I'm sure they will adopt BEV tech when it suits them - like they have for all other tech.

Toyoda San's comments do underscore an issue with EV adoption: A different sort of person is passionate about EVs vs conventional vehicles. A 'car guy' is likely to be person that likes mechanical things; enjoys the sound of an engine roaring. An EV person is likely to be passionate about the tech, or the environmental benefit; doesn't mind their vehicle sounding like a Tamiya car.

And the auto industry is full of 'car guys'.

I don't think there's much connection between hybrids and EV acceptance - they're both still rather different. GM had great acceptance of the EV1 before the Prius was created but it was killed by GM due for political/financial future reasons.

You're right, Toyota will adopt BEV tech when it suits them but by then it might be too late. The Korean's, Chinese and Americans are well underway with electrification, with the Chinese getting into Toyota pricing categories.

The average consumer is driven by price. With the price of EVs dropping every year and the cost of fueling ICE vehicles becoming more expensive, more and more people are being driven to EVs purely for financial reasons. They don't care what powers it, just that it works and that it's cheap.

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#3029901 31-Jan-2023 10:58

Obraik:

You're right, Toyota will adopt BEV tech when it suits them but by then it might be too late. The Korean's, Chinese and Americans are well underway with electrification, with the Chinese getting into Toyota pricing categories.

The average consumer is driven by price. With the price of EVs dropping every year and the cost of fueling ICE vehicles becoming more expensive, more and more people are being driven to EVs purely for financial reasons. They don't care what powers it, just that it works and that it's cheap.

From my understanding, people have long loved Toyota engines, but been less than enthusiastic about those made in China.

However with BEVs not needing these, taking a punt on a Chinese car that gets rid of a large proportion of the mechanical complexity because it has removed the ICE might be more palatable to some.

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BlargHonk

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#3029932 31-Jan-2023 12:44

Man I would love an EV Corolla that does 300km+ for <$50k. I wonder if the MG4 will be any good...

afe66

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#3029955 31-Jan-2023 14:29

The mg4 has quite good reviews. Google fully charged and mg4

BlargHonk

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#3029957 31-Jan-2023 14:34

Yeah I have been reading the reviews of it coming out of the UK. It does seem to tick a lot of boxes, especially if they can price it under the ZS EV like it is in the UK.

MikeAqua

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#3029970 31-Jan-2023 15:19

Obraik:

You're right, Toyota will adopt BEV tech when it suits them but by then it might be too late. The Korean's, Chinese and Americans are well underway with electrification, with the Chinese getting into Toyota pricing categories.

The average consumer is driven by price. With the price of EVs dropping every year and the cost of fueling ICE vehicles becoming more expensive, more and more people are being driven to EVs purely for financial reasons. They don't care what powers it, just that it works and that it's cheap.

Toyota are very good at copying. Also, very good at core skills such as componentry sourcing, tool making and assembly. I suspect they could catch Tesla anytime they wanted to on product quality and price. But not on glam. They already have Lexus EVs. A Toyota is seen as a dull, dependable car (with a few exceptions like the Supra). They almost have to wait until EVs are mainstream, boring and affordable. I'm sure that will happen soon enough.

The average consumer however, buys used, so they have limited influence on the new car market. If you're worried about costs, you don't buy new.

Mike

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#3029975 31-Jan-2023 15:37

MikeAqua:

Toyota are very good at copying. Also, very good at core skills such as componentry sourcing, tool making and assembly. I suspect they could catch Tesla anytime they wanted to on product quality and price. But not on glam. They already have Lexus EVs. A Toyota is seen as a dull, dependable car (with a few exceptions like the Supra). They almost have to wait until EVs are mainstream, boring and affordable. I'm sure that will happen soon enough.

The average consumer however, buys used, so they have limited influence on the new car market. If you're worried about costs, you don't buy new.

The secondhand market is influenced by the new car market. If people aren't buying new Toyota EVs then second hand buyers won't be buying second hand Toyota EVs either.

The biggest problem for Toyota when they "decide to join the race" will be battery production. Most non-Japanese companies have made deals with the current battery makers to supply their EVs - there's not a lot of spare production currently.

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ezbee

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#3029982 31-Jan-2023 15:43

Toyota did get a bit burnt as other Japanese manufacturers with issues of critical materials supply and politics in China.

I expect that Toyota has been wary of dependance on certain battery supply chain.

Things seem to have warmed up since technolgies they have more of their own IP become possible.
Solid state battery gives Toyota a battery they have IP, and potentially more diversified supply chain.

Hybrids have been very practical vehicles in demand at prices that would be difficult for full electric.
They have done a lot to reduce fuel use for a wide range of people.
Plug in even moreso.

Typical car company problems of affordable battery replacement, and fuzzy right to repair, ( Closed Connector and interface standards ) does mean these may die before their time though.

Even there Toyota have stood out as much more rebuildable modules that allows more recycling than most.

The Hydrogen thing seemed to be a bit of a distraction when Japan has more nuclear generation and battery roadmap less clear.
Maybe leadership there distracted them a bit.

Obraik

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#3030207 1-Feb-2023 09:52

Toyota's decisions are starting to hamper their Hilux sales

In the article they're trying to spin it as "we're choosing to do this to reduce emissions" but the truth is that they're having to do this to prevent being fined by the Clean Car Standard which specifies that importers must have their CO2 average fleet emission levels below 145g/km for cars and 218.3g/km for utes. If a company is better in one category than the other then they can take the credits from that category to offset the other...but it seems like Toyota has worries that they won't have enough to offset uncontained Hilux sales.

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Silvrav

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#3030212 1-Feb-2023 10:07

He is not wrong....EVs are NOT the future at this time and won't be anytime soon regardless of what the wider world is trying to force onto countries and manufacturers.

I would give it another 20-25years before its really viable with newer battery and charging technology.

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#3030216 1-Feb-2023 10:21

The same article points out 75% of Ford NZ’s sales are Rangers. I wonder how they will manage the same offset? You can only sell so many Mach-Es, Escape PHEVs and HEVs and e-Transits.

A Ranger Lightning, or at least a PHEV and HEV, for the non-US market would seem a no-brainer. LDV have proven you can throw an electric powertrain in an existing truck and it will sell.

Likewise offsets affect Mitsubishi with Triton vs Outlander/Eclipse Cross and Nissan with Navara vs LEAF.

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Obraik

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#3030217 1-Feb-2023 10:32

Dingbatt:

The same article points out 75% of Ford NZ’s sales are Rangers. I wonder how they will manage the same offset? You can only sell so many Mach-Es, Escape PHEVs and HEVs and e-Transits.

A Ranger Lightning, or at least a PHEV and HEV, for the non-US market would seem a no-brainer. LDV have proven you can throw an electric powertrain in an existing truck and it will sell.

Likewise offsets affect Mitsubishi with Triton vs Outlander/Eclipse Cross and Nissan with Navara vs LEAF.

I suspect it's a case of Toyota trying to aggressively protect their self-made reputation of being "clean and green" and keeping up the illusion of Hybrids by making sure they don't pay any Clean Car Standard fines. If they don't pay any fines they can continue the marketing of "we care because we're not like those others dirty companies that had to pay".

Ultimately, it is a good thing that Toyota is doing as it still reduces emissions...but I'm just not buying the reasons they claim they're doing it. This strategy is only going to work for a year or two as the screws on the Clean Car Standard start being tightened each year.

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