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alasta

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#315227 24-Jun-2024 12:39
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In other threads there seem to be a lot of strong opinions, apparently based on ideological beliefs, about whether or not electric vehicle fires are a major problem. A few weeks ago a neighbour's garage was on fire with a Tesla inside, and my observations are as follows:

 

  • The fire took a considerable time to put out, but was able to be kept under control.
  • Flames were shooting several metres into the air, so it was lucky that it was a standalone garage. An internal garage would likely have resulted in a total loss of the home.
  • When I spoke to a fireman on site the next morning he tentatively indicated his belief that the fire did not originate from the electric vehicle but more likely from an electrical fault in the garage infrastructure which arose while the vehicle was charging. So the vehicle was likely only an indirect cause.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions, but my impression is that the reality lies somewhere in the middle of the opinions that thrown around on this subject. 

 

 


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CYaBro
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  #3252483 24-Jun-2024 13:02
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Wonder what sort of charger they had?
Standard Tesla mobile charger with the 10A tail? 15A tail?
Wall charger?

 

Some third party charger?





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BlakJak
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  #3252484 24-Jun-2024 13:04
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If the EV didn't start the fire, then even considering it a secondary or indirect cause is misleading IMO.  What they are is a significant risk in terms of the energy loading and combustibility of the batteries themselves. Anything with a large battery poses that risk, it just so happens that cars are amongst the largest exposure a typical residence will have.

 

Homes with substantial battery/solar power plants will present similar risk.

 

As someone else pointed out; when you do the risk assessment you are comparing both likelihood and consequence; the consequence of a vehicle fire involving an EV is going to be somewhat higher due to that combustibility.

 

But if you have a well involved vehicle fire in a garage, it'll likely be big enough to put the whole house at risk as well.





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robjg63
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  #3252488 24-Jun-2024 13:11
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Perhaps the heading should be "Dodgy old garage with bad wiring catches fire".





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gzt

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  #3252495 24-Jun-2024 13:24
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The other car looks like someone's ancient pride and joy was lost in that one as well.

hamish225
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  #3252504 24-Jun-2024 13:43
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If it was the wiring, I'm glad mine was updated and the old fuse box replaced with a modern breaker box when I had my 32a EVSE installed. I just need to replace the berried cable between the garage and the house. Which is a pain because it goes underneath concrete paths.

 

 

 

Too often I see people on the facebook groups saying its ok to use the granny lead all the time, I'm not so sure.





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gzt

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  #3252510 24-Jun-2024 13:53
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hamish225: Too often I see people on the facebook groups saying its ok to use the granny lead all the time, I'm not so sure.

Presumably the 8A ones are ok. I think there may be some 15A ones around with a standard 10A plug on them?

CYaBro
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  #3252511 24-Jun-2024 13:53
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hamish225:

 

If it was the wiring, I'm glad mine was updated and the old fuse box replaced with a modern breaker box when I had my 32a EVSE installed. I just need to replace the berried cable between the garage and the house. Which is a pain because it goes underneath concrete paths.

 

 

 

Too often I see people on the facebook groups saying its ok to use the granny lead all the time, I'm not so sure.

 

 

Our MG granny charger only draws around 7A continuously so I don't have an issue with using that on a 10A rated socket and a circuit that's rated for 16A.





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freitasm
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  #3252543 24-Jun-2024 14:34
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If I have many clothes at home and the house catches fire because of the oven, but the fires keep going because there are too many flammable fibres, would you say the clothes caused the fire - or the oven?

 

Same thing. If the car didn't cause the fire, then it didn't cause the fire. It may have contributed but then again those wooden walls contributed too.





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robjg63
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  #3252545 24-Jun-2024 14:36
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I have a Tesla mobile connector (home charger ie the kind that goes in a 10 or 15A residential wall plug).

 

It started off by only ever maxxing out at 8A and one day surprised me when I noticed it was drawing 10A.

 

Apparently a software update to the car had pushed out an update to the charger that said that it could do the full 10A on a regular power outlet.

 

(Who knew the charger had smarts in it?)

 

It seems that there was a 'code of practice' rather than a law in AU/NZ that a 10A power outlet should stick to about 80% of its rated value.

 

At some stage the 'wisdom' changed to 'if its rated at 10A it should be able to take 10A all day long' - which it should.

 

You can buy 2.2-2.3kw plug in home heaters after all - so there are off the shelf 10A appliances out there.

 

Perhaps 10A for multiple hours was too much for this situation.

 

 

 

PS. The Tesla charger comes with 2 'tails' ie short power adapter that connects the charger to the wall plug. The 15A plug has a wider earth pin so it will only fit in a 15A wall outlet.

 

So you shouldnt be able to plug in a 15A changer to a 10A outlet unless you have some dodgy wiring:

 

 

 





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richms
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  #3252551 24-Jun-2024 14:42
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You can use the full capability of the outlet if you have plug temperature monitoring. That is why they say not to use extension cables, as the extension cables plug is not monitored.





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robjg63
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  #3252553 24-Jun-2024 14:48
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freitasm:

 

If I have many clothes at home and the house catches fire because of the oven, but the fires keep going because there are too many flammable fibres, would you say the clothes caused the fire - or the oven?

 

Same thing. If the car didn't cause the fire, then it didn't cause the fire. It may have contributed but then again those wooden walls contributed too.

 

 

And I would suspect a big old ICE car with half a tank of gas would probably ignite before the EV. 

 

EV's usually need a lot of heat to start burning. Speculation on my part of course...





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michaelmurfy
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  #3252554 24-Jun-2024 14:48
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I would like to state one fact before this gets out of control...

 

There has not been a single reported EV battery fire in NZ. EV fires are super rare.

 

Sure there has been other (indirect) cases of fires but I do not believe that fire was directly caused by the EV. There has been plenty of garage fires caused by internal combustion vehicles or indirectly by nearby flammable materials.

 

An EV is between 40-80x less likely to catch fire compared to an internal combustion engine vehicle depending on who you ask. You watch those crash videos and ask yourself how many times do EV's go up in flames when they've been involved in a terrible crash and the answer is I've yet to see one. There was a case not too long ago of a Tesla that went off a cliff and again, no fire: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/luck-tesla-family-plunged-cliff-rcna64547 

 

An electrical problem caused by old wiring in a garage is still an indirect cause of a fire. There could have been anything hooked up to that socket drawing a load and the same thing would have happened. Stating the EV caused this is misleading.

 

robjg63: I have a Tesla mobile connector (home charger ie the kind that goes in a 10 or 15A residential wall plug).

 

It started off by only ever maxxing out at 8A and one day surprised me when I noticed it was drawing 10A.

 

Apparently a software update to the car had pushed out an update to the charger that said that it could do the full 10A on a regular power outlet.

 

Yes, the mobile connector has smarts in it and gets firmware updated by the vehicle only when it is not charging.





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lxsw20
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  #3252568 24-Jun-2024 15:10
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gzt: The other car looks like someone's ancient pride and joy was lost in that one as well.

 

 

 

Looks like a Rover 3500

 

 

 

Lots of accelerants in a garage too, paint, LPG tanks, aerosol cans etc.


BlakJak
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  #3252570 24-Jun-2024 15:14
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Well reported case in California

 

"Investigators confirmed that the fire was caused by the Tesla, and not by power from the house. The Vindum left the burnt remains of their Teslas on their driveway for two months waiting for a Tesla representative to investigate the cars, but according to the report it never occurred."

 

Tesla Fire on Auckland Harbour Bridge 2023

 

The California article also explicitly states that outright, there are fewer fires involving EV's than ICE's but 'very few of those fires occurred while parked'.





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michaelmurfy
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  #3252571 24-Jun-2024 15:22
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BlakJak: Tesla Fire on Auckland Harbour Bridge 2023

 

I was waiting for this to come up. This was actually caused by a drunk driver who was driving at speed on a curbed, flat tyre causing friction and a fire to start from the front of the vehicle. It was later confirmed by Tesla the cause was not due to any of the electrical systems or the battery, in-fact, the battery was actually fine even after the fact (you can see this in the photos and even the video).

 

But even your statement here:

 

BlakJak: What they are is a significant risk in terms of the energy loading and combustibility of the batteries themselves. Anything with a large battery poses that risk, it just so happens that cars are amongst the largest exposure a typical residence will have.

 

doesn't account for the safety mechanisms inside a modern electric vehicle including the fact most EV's also have LFP batteries that are far less likely to combust. You can see this in the BYD Blade battery test here:

 

 

Also it's somewhat diversion to not think of the fact many garages have a vehicle with both a heat source (engine) along with a fuel source (petrol). IMHO, this poses more of a risk over an EV where there hasn't actually been a fire caused by an EV battery here in New Zealand as already quoted above.





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