Mackenzie District Bus Crash

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Reanalyse

381 posts

Ultimate Geek

#315492 21-Jul-2024 16:13

Headline "Motorist says buses were 'flying along' before crash, company says it was a safe speed"

Well company, if it was safe speed why did both buses crash. Probably a legal speed but given conditions certainly not a safe speed.

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Uber Geek

#3262388 21-Jul-2024 16:48

Tekapo's a long way from Southland.

SATTV

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#3262401 21-Jul-2024 18:38

Black ice, apparently you cant see it so there may have been a patch, who knows, we wont know until the accident investigation is complete.

I know enough to be dangerous

gzt

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#3262409 21-Jul-2024 19:25

It's called black ice because it's difficult to see. Black ice is not a new thing. My first thought on the bus crashes - tourism starting up again and potentially new drivers. Some of the smaller tour operators definitely do rush around anyways.

In summer in Auckland when it rains the first time in ages there are usually a heap of crashes that day. There is that silly factor you would not expect it from professional drivers.

Driving in the upper half of the North Island I've seen the black ice signs out in winter and taken it very slow. I've never knowingly hit it. In the NI it's mostly side highways and side roads if I remember correctly. I haven't driven far from home for some time since before covid.

gzt

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#3262410 21-Jul-2024 19:29

Black ice in Tekapo does that area have the usual warning signs?

Batman

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#3262431 21-Jul-2024 20:36

I was driving on that highway those mornings.

The entire highway was under fog for an entire week (including today), visibility terrible at best.

The roads were completely frozen in the morning, ice everywhere.

Everyone around us were driving between 30-60kph!

There were signs but they were few and far between. You can't put up a sign every 100m on a highway that is 100km long.

should they have closed the road? well everyone else got to their destination ok it seems.

re 4WD: is useful for gaining speed, useless for scrubbing speed, and not much help if both wheels on the same axle are on ice at the same time.

Batman

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#3262433 21-Jul-2024 20:42

also nowhere near Southland, maybe around 10 hrs drive away.

Scott3

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#3262437 21-Jul-2024 20:51

"Qiao said after checking records he believed their bus was operating at safe speed, but said the road “was really bad” with black ice."

The first and second parts of that sentence seem to contradict each other.

A safe speed, would be a speed to suit the conditions.

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Chrisclarke

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Master Geek

#3262830 22-Jul-2024 13:22

Reanalyse:

Headline "Motorist says buses were 'flying along' before crash, company says it was a safe speed"

Well company, if it was safe speed why did both buses crash. Probably a legal speed but given conditions certainly not a safe speed.

Don't believe everything you read in the media! The fact that all passengers were wearing seatbelts suggests someone was taking safety seriously, and the fact there were no fatalities might suggest that speed at the time of the accident wasn't as high as suggested.

Worth noting that the police haven't indicated speed was a factor - they will have something to say once they have completed their investigation no doubt, but perhaps sensible to wait for their verdict.

jfanning

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Ultimate Geek

#3262886 22-Jul-2024 13:46

Batman:

also nowhere near Southland, maybe around 10 hrs drive away.

About 5

Bung

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#3262907 22-Jul-2024 14:41

Chrisclarke:

Don't believe everything you read in the media! The fact that all passengers were wearing seatbelts suggests someone was taking safety seriously, and the fact there were no fatalities might suggest that speed at the time of the accident wasn't as high as suggested.

Worth noting that the police haven't indicated speed was a factor - they will have something to say once they have completed their investigation no doubt, but perhaps sensible to wait for their verdict.

Unless media reports that the bus(es) had rolled several times are wrong you can't defend the speed. Any road surface shaded by trees or hillsides is likely to be icy. Even our street in Wellington had its share of ice.

Behodar

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#3262909 22-Jul-2024 14:43

jfanning:

Batman:

also nowhere near Southland, maybe around 10 hrs drive away.

About 5

Depends on how much ice is on the road!

Chrisclarke

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Master Geek

#3263173 22-Jul-2024 20:33

Bung:

Chrisclarke:

Don't believe everything you read in the media! The fact that all passengers were wearing seatbelts suggests someone was taking safety seriously, and the fact there were no fatalities might suggest that speed at the time of the accident wasn't as high as suggested.

Worth noting that the police haven't indicated speed was a factor - they will have something to say once they have completed their investigation no doubt, but perhaps sensible to wait for their verdict.

Unless media reports that the bus(es) had rolled several times are wrong you can't defend the speed. Any road surface shaded by trees or hillsides is likely to be icy. Even our street in Wellington had its share of ice.

I didn't defend the speed, simply stated that the speed might not have been as high as suggested in the media. Even at very low speeds, a vehicle can roll if it leaves the road and finds itself in a ditch or on a bank. Without breaking any confidences, I was directly involved in the response to this incident, so have some knowledge of what happened.

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#3263521 23-Jul-2024 12:45

apparently might have temp speed reduction in dangerous part, down to 30 or 50

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/south-canterbury/crashes-could-prompt-major-speed-limit-drop-sh8

MadEngineer

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#3263530 23-Jul-2024 12:58

A number of years back and before the time that everyone had cell phones I was visiting some friends and another couple were late but eventually turned up. They had lost control on a slight bend in Taranaki ending up in a ditch and suspected black ice. Conditions at the time were agreeable. Police charged them with reckless driving (IIRC) and were not interested in checking the road surface or even listening to them at all. The attitude was if you've come off the road you were simply not driving to the conditions no matter the road surface.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

tweake

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#3263538 23-Jul-2024 13:36

MadEngineer:

A number of years back and before the time that everyone had cell phones I was visiting some friends and another couple were late but eventually turned up. They had lost control on a slight bend in Taranaki ending up in a ditch and suspected black ice. Conditions at the time were agreeable. Police charged them with reckless driving (IIRC) and were not interested in checking the road surface or even listening to them at all. The attitude was if you've come off the road you were simply not driving to the conditions no matter the road surface.

thats the old school mentality that you can drive "perfectly" and road conditions don't play a role. its like people expect you to see every pothole even when its raining and they are all under water.

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