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# 251306 18-Jun-2019 13:57
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I've been searching for sometime now,  for LED's to replace my halogen MR16 bulbs. 

 

Criteria is quality (philips/osram), high power, dimming, warm light, and aesthetics (no cooling fins). 

 

Such a light with all those attributes is rare in NZ,  at a reasonable price, if at all. 

 

But, I found an online store in aussie, that sells the new model Philips LED MR16 downlights, on sale for $14.71 ea, with free shipping on a $200+ order (otherwise $9). 

 

Store seems legit, paid by CC , so should be protected in case of issues. 

 

Will update here if it works out, but sale might end by then. 

 

https://reductionrevolution.com.au/products/philips-master-led-mr16-7-watt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2260249 18-Jun-2019 14:01
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What drivers are you using? Often the transformers with halogens don't work very well if at all. Often it is cheaper and less hassle to just replace the fitting. I replced mine with some 5.5W philips ones, and they seem to have pretty good brightnes




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  # 2260253 18-Jun-2019 14:04
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mattwnz:

 

What drivers are you using? Often the transformers with halogens don't work very well if at all. Often it is cheaper and less hassle to just replace the fitting.

 

 

Yes, I'll see how that goes. I have been upgrading the old philips halogen transformers (as a number have failed over the years) with LED rated electronic transformers . I'll run some tests when the bulbs arrive.   Just replacing a single room at this stage to see how it goes. 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2260255 18-Jun-2019 14:07
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Thanks. Were did you get the transformers from, as I am needing to replace a few as well? The ones I have found are quite pricey, compared to just buying a whole LED fitting. 




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  # 2260260 18-Jun-2019 14:21
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mattwnz:

 

Thanks. Were did you get the transformers from, as I am needing to replace a few as well? The ones I have found are quite pricey, compared to just buying a whole LED fitting. 

 

 

I have a variety installed now as I just replace whenever a halogen transformer fails. 

 

I have a few sylvania (bunnings) transformers running LED's on non-dimming circuits.  They work just fine, no flickering -- although, there was flickering on some cheap LED bulbs -- so I steer away from crappy no-name LED brands now. 

 

I've also got some transformers i bought from JA Russell and Corys electrical, can't remember the brands though. I haven't had any LED failures yet. Compared to halogens which run so hot and fail more often.

 

Not sure about replacing the entire fitting, that means I have to do the entire house and have an electrician do that . 

 

 


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  # 2260266 18-Jun-2019 14:49
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+1 for these.

 

I replaced some three dozen halogen lamps with a previous incarnation of this product bought from this supplier, some 2-3 years ago. And have had no issues - other than the they do have the fins, which allows a draught to come in from the roof space.

 

I've made repeat purchases from Reduction Revolution and happily recommend them - and I now also stick to Philips. These lamps happily work with the generic(ish) existing halogen transformers.


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  # 2260333 18-Jun-2019 15:41
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I have a pair of those Philips Master MR16 7W 60 deg, 3000K dimmable bulbs (look exactly the same as in the pic). They are just not bright enough, I plan on returning them. Am I doing something wrong then?

 

I usually compare bulbs across two identical rooms that are next to each other. I have halogens in the one, and try the LED replacements in the other to try compare their light output. The Philips bulbs just weren't near bright enough. Seemed about 65% the brightness of the halogens or around 35W halogens. Admittedly they seemed brighter in the kitchen, but still not good enough. New LED transformer in the kitchen that I was told is good and basically works with everything. Transformers in the rooms are older electronic transformers, but I don't think they're an issue.

 

I have a few Ecopoint MR16's I bought a few years back that I've been very happy with. Good bright light, excellent efficiency and OK dimming. (Could only find them in one particular Bunnings store in Auckland.) I've recently found a Brightlight MR16 7W 3000k 60 deg bulb that seem to be very similar to the Ecopoint. Ecopoints were ~$36 ea. Brightlights I managed to pickup for $18 or so ea.

 

I'd tried a few others in the past like Megaman ER1006-35H36D - all quite terrible.

 

3000K is pretty good for work areas like kitchen bench, but a bit warmer would be nicer for other rooms. The dimmable LED's never dim as nicely as halogens, but seem to be acceptable for most cases. Biggest annoyance is if set to a dim setting and you turn the lights on, they come on bright for a split second and then go down the the correct level. Flash of bright light. Halogens don't do that. I'd like to automate a few lights for when people are going to the bathroom at night (low brightness), and the flash would not be nice.

 

Why do you not want heat sink fins?

 

I've looked briefly at changing whole fittings, biggest issue is I have silver square single bulb and rectangular double bulb fittings in the house. I don't really want to replace them all at once. I've found replacements but not in silver, they have black and white options only. Benefits would be better light without this retrofit compromises, better insulation and better dimming performance, and possibly more light output. Round fittings seem to be far more common and they seem to put out a lot more light, so if a new build you'd have less of them in the room, so doesn't quite seem ideal swapping out the old MR16 fittings for them. Swapping out bulbs in most rooms like the laundry are just never going to result in a net savings.


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  # 2260407 18-Jun-2019 16:45
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Those Philips lights are spec'ed at 500 lumens, 530 if you go to 4000 K which would better suit most kitchens and bathrooms.

 

 

 

Halogen 50 W @ 240 V output well over 700 lm. E.g. https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/philips-halogen-essential-plus-mr16-gu5-3-50-watt/p/227897

 

 

 

I bought these a while ago, they are excellent. 600 lm with perfect color & spread. Get what you pay for.

 

https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/ge-lighting-led-light-bulb-dimmable-gu10-7-5-watt-cool-white/p/283701

 

The MR16 versions are dimmer for the same power. Limitation of the format I suppose. Upgrade your fittings and stop mucking around with dodgy retrofits.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2260413 18-Jun-2019 16:57
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People will often compare against crap halogens with a low output rather than good actual halogens. Im yet to find a decent replacement for halogen for brightness and more importantly the cleanliness of the beam cutoff around the spot area. You just have to change your expectations when changing lighting technology and not expect a dropin size compatible replacement to have the same lighting.





Richard rich.ms

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  # 2260422 18-Jun-2019 17:08
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richms:

 

People will often compare against crap halogens with a low output rather than good actual halogens. Im yet to find a decent replacement for halogen for brightness and more importantly the cleanliness of the beam cutoff around the spot area. You just have to change your expectations when changing lighting technology and not expect a dropin size compatible replacement to have the same lighting.

 

 

 

 

LEDs for B22 and E27 fittings tend to be brighter than their incandescent versions these days, forat least for certain confined fixtures. The thing is that LEDs are still relatively new, so more powerful good brand MR16 bulbs have taken a long time to be released.

 

The amount of power saving between halogens and LEDs is worth the negatives IMO. But the light from halogens can be very good, and tends to have a near 100 CRI, unlike most LEDS, where many are 80ish.


pdh

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  # 2260615 19-Jun-2019 03:53
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LED replacements for our halogen bulbs tend to meet our expectations better - because our old incandescent bulbs were a bit dim - by Japanese, or North American standards. That is/was just a function of different mains voltages and resultant sizes of filament.

 

Our 100 W bulbs (using 240 V) must use a thinner glowing wire filament than is used in a 100 or 110 V bulb (eg: Japan, Canada or the US) - so our 100W bulb is less robust and less efficient (fewer lumens output) for the same 100 W power input. It's noticeable - I spotted it when I moved here from Canada about 40 years ago.

 

So any LED bulb that's designed to be marketed as a 100 W replacement must meet the higher lumen expectations in Japan or the US. Meeting ours is a lot easier - since we're used to dimmer bulbs. So an LED bulb that mildly disappoints a Canadian customer seems fine to us.

 

When it comes to Halogen bulbs, most run at 12 V worldwide - using internal (G10) or external (MR16) transformers from whatever mains voltage is local. So we're used to the same light output from a 50W Halogen as anybody else - and when we get an over-hyped LED replacement bulb, we're equally disappointed as a guy in Japan, etc. We have no 'lower expectation' to cushion the low LED output.

 

Perhaps we're also more demanding of a Halogen replacement ? If it's lighting a workspace, for reading or high-lighting artwork / merchandise, then we are less likely to put up with over-hyped wattage equivalences - than if it's just lighting the hallway enough to dodge the cat...

 

 


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  # 2260702 19-Jun-2019 09:41
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GU10 lamps are just small incandesent lamps, that is why they are so disappointing compared to actual 12v halogen lamps. They are way down on output compared to 12v ones and have the same difference between 110v and 140v versions that affect all low wattage lighting.

 

Also because of the small space they are much more prone to arc over when the filament breaks blowing up your dimmer than a larger lamp would be.





Richard rich.ms

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  # 2260894 19-Jun-2019 14:04
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> GU10 lamps are just small incandesent lamps

 

...and, of course, don't have any internal transformer.
My bad - that's what too little sleep does for me !

 

There were some MR16 Halogens with internal transformers - with screw bases.
They just didn't come in the GU10 form factor.

 

 


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  # 2262218 21-Jun-2019 22:11
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It's correct GU10s don't have internal transformers. But AFAIK most GU10 are not simply normal albeit small incandescent lights. They are in fact halogen lights i.e. they have a small amount of halogen probably iodine or bromine in the bulb which is surely the defining feature of a halogen light. (They are a type of incandescent lights, as with all halogens including 12V ones or those used in torches etc.) In fact, while I don't think they were very common here, for a time E26, E27 etc halogen replacements weren't uncommon. AFAIK these were generally just a small mains power halogen inside a globe. https://www.lumens.com/72w-120v-a19-e26-clear-halogen-bulb-2-pack-by-bulbrite-uu518423.html https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wolfram-Halogengl%C3%BChlampe.png (These were allowed for a time in countries with regulatory phase outs of normal incandescents as they do have a slightly higher luminous efficacy than normal incandescents.) Voltage does make a difference in design and performance but this doesn't mean a halogen light isn't a halogen light.


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  # 2262258 21-Jun-2019 22:38
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They don't run the glass hot enough to have the halogen cycle occur reliably which is why they have terrible lifespans compared to 12v mr16's which I know of people with 20+ year old ones that are used every night.

 

 





Richard rich.ms

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  # 2262279 22-Jun-2019 04:51
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Getting a bit geeky...

 

But just curious why the glass temp would be different ?

 

I'm guessing the filament temp would be similar (for similar light 'temp') and the geometry of the MR reflector/glass is very similar; so what causes the difference inside the bulb ?

 

I can vouch for the long life of the 12V bulbs. Ran 6 in the kitchen of my house (from '94 to 2014) and may have replaced 2 bulbs in those 20 years. Worked flawlessly with the PDL dimmer of the day - easily up & down to just a glow. In fact, bulbs were more reliable than the transformers - replaced two of them over the same time span.


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