Air New Zealand Booking Costs

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Tatou

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#315889 28-Aug-2024 11:38

For many years two of us happily travelled from Wellington to Melbourne with Air NZ with two Works Deluxe seats.

This provided an empty seat between each of us and also provided meals etc- essentially each of us paid 50% of the empty seat cost. It was a great way to fly with room.

In 2018 that cost - when booked online- $1486 including $24 ($12 per seat) for Credit Card fee

Air New Zealand in its infinite marketing wisdom decided to make the fares easier with more choice and last year (or maybe this year) removed that fare option.

I decided today to replicate that experience by purchasing three tickets for a flight in February 2025- two being The Works and one being Seat.

However you can't do this online I was told by the chat as the online system requires a passenger name per seat.

This means you incur a service fee PER SEAT of $35 namely $105 for using the call centre.

Also the credit card fee is now $14.20 per seat namely $42.60

Total cost seven year later $2,253.13

An increase for exactly the same flight conditions ( empty seat between and meals) of $767.13 more than 50%

Any comments

floydbloke

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#3276086 28-Aug-2024 12:15

Not as bad as insurance and council rates increases over that time period.😜

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

johno1234

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#3276217 28-Aug-2024 14:10

Is it a likely to be a full flight? I would consider on separate bookings buying the window and aisle seats and hope that nobody ends up in the middle. If they do, offer them to swap onboard for the window or aisle seat.

If it is a Boeing, consider an SkyCouch seat.

KiwiSurfer

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#3276221 28-Aug-2024 14:14

Don't see the problem here. This is a benefit Air NZ is not under any obligation to provide. Perhaps this is for the best as it means more people can travel on each flight -- it does seem a bit silly to block seats off just because someone wants bit more space. If you really want more space Qantas offers biz class on all their Tasman services (including those ex-WLG) or you can fly up to Auckland to connect with one of the few wide-body Tasman flight that has PE or Biz classes.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#3276228 28-Aug-2024 14:30

johno1234:

Is it a likely to be a full flight? I would consider on separate bookings buying the window and aisle seats and hope that nobody ends up in the middle. If they do, offer them to swap onboard for the window or aisle seat.

If it is a Boeing, consider an SkyCouch seat.

Wellington to Melbourne will be a 320 or *maybe* 321.

NZ is also very short on capacity at the moment, due to engine issues on the Neo fleet, engine issues on the 787s, delays on 787 deliveries, and retiriring the 200ERs. I doubt they have any desire to accept empty seats whereas historically they may have been expecting a larger proportion of seats to be empty anyway.

An empty seat is much cheaper for the airline than an actual paying passenger: 100kg less on the plane means less fuel burn or more cargo. No per-passenger taxes.

Many international flights out of Wellington might actually be weight limited due to the runway and fuel load, meaning that there would have been ~10 seats empty on the plane regardless of how many tickets were sold; they were selling you seats that they couldn't sell to an actual passenger..

More efficient engines on the Neo might mean that there are no such weight issues, and thus no reason 'give away' seats that you can now sell.

larknz

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#3276229 28-Aug-2024 14:30

I used to use Works Deluxe quite regularly ChCh to Sydney and was pretty brassed off when they did away with the option. Tried going biz class via Auckland, but was a bit of a nightmare transiting at Auckland.

Looks like I'll be going with Emirates next time. I have previously flown twice with Qantas and wasn't impressed either time.

Tatou

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#3276265 28-Aug-2024 15:50

KiwiSurfer:

Don't see the problem here. This is a benefit Air NZ is not under any obligation to provide. Perhaps this is for the best as it means more people can travel on each flight -- it does seem a bit silly to block seats off just because someone wants bit more space. If you really want more space Qantas offers biz class on all their Tasman services (including those ex-WLG) or you can fly up to Auckland to connect with one of the few wide-body Tasman flight that has PE or Biz classes.

I suppose it was because they couldn't provide a business option from Wellington and this was No8 wire way of doing so. However it was no "benefit". The price difference between the Works Deluxe (guaranteed empty seat next to you) and Works was half the cost of a non frills seat. Of course they were taking a risk no one would buy the other seat hence paying the other half cost. If the plane was full then they could sit a seat only person there.

They only used the first 3 rows for the product anyway.

My point was it was product that seemed to be used all the time I flew but obviously it did not produce enough revenue. As capacity is tight on the Tasman there is no pressure to come up with such point of differentiation. It certainly got me flying AirNZ for years to Melbourne. Originally it got you lounge access as well so it was clearly a "poor mans" business class when you couldn't actually provide a business class.

MY main point was about the cost increase :-)

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Tatou

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#3276277 28-Aug-2024 16:04

SomeoneSomewhere:

johno1234:

Is it a likely to be a full flight? I would consider on separate bookings buying the window and aisle seats and hope that nobody ends up in the middle. If they do, offer them to swap onboard for the window or aisle seat.

If it is a Boeing, consider an SkyCouch seat.

Wellington to Melbourne will be a 320 or *maybe* 321.

NZ is also very short on capacity at the moment, due to engine issues on the Neo fleet, engine issues on the 787s, delays on 787 deliveries, and retiriring the 200ERs. I doubt they have any desire to accept empty seats whereas historically they may have been expecting a larger proportion of seats to be empty anyway.

An empty seat is much cheaper for the airline than an actual paying passenger: 100kg less on the plane means less fuel burn or more cargo. No per-passenger taxes.

Many international flights out of Wellington might actually be weight limited due to the runway and fuel load, meaning that there would have been ~10 seats empty on the plane regardless of how many tickets were sold; they were selling you seats that they couldn't sell to an actual passenger..

More efficient engines on the Neo might mean that there are no such weight issues, and thus no reason 'give away' seats that you can now sell.

If they don't have to pay per passenger charge for an empty seat then they must be pocketing the empty seat passenger charges namely the taxes, surcharges, government and airport costs which was $268.51 - the same as the occupied seat.

Anyway having flown the Tasman in the A320 many many times on Works Deluxe product, I am willing to pay extra to not have a passenger between me and my partner. It makes flying just much more pleasant. However I am not willing to pay the amount to fly business class (via Auckland at least $5,098) or Qantas business class from Wellington

Anyway my main point was about the increase in fares for the same product :-) not the removal of Works Deluxe option

Jase2985

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#3276284 28-Aug-2024 16:16

You are comparing over a 6 year period, inflation over that time has been about 25%. Plus we had a pandemic in the middle of things.

gmball

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#3276342 28-Aug-2024 17:01

The taxes on WLG to MEL are $83. By booking a occupied seat, your paying the government taxes associated (which the airline wouldn't have paid with the works deluxe product as it was an unoccupied seat).

With inflation and across the board increases in costs, labour costs especially have increased at a rate far higher than inflation, and the addition of ticket taxes by booking a occupied third seat, the increase seems reasonable over a 6 year period?

With a works deluxe seat option when it was available, one would assume they are not charging (or being charged) for the ticket taxes associated with an empty seat as one would assume there are no taxes associated with a empty seat, instead the airline is charging a fee for keeping that seat empty, and cannot take advantage of the full fare they would have got if they could sell it as a occupied seat.

Personally I think most Kiwi's are led to believe airlines are over charging, without really giving much thought to the costs involved in operating an airline. I actually think fares are very reasonable when you consider what costs are involved.

I just looked at a random date in September for a one way fare between WLG/MEL on Air NZ, the cost was $364 for the works option, one way. The government taxes are $83.30. So Air NZ are pocketing $280. Assuming 165 seats (A320neo), thats $46,000 approx revenue (if load factor was 100% which is unlikely). Other revenue from freight/cargo/ancillary products.

I did a quick google and the cost to operate a A320neo (assuming that is the aircraft used) is USD $10,800 per flight hour (NZD $17,200 ph). WLG/MEL is 4 hours, so the cost to actually operate is $68,000 NZD. Assuming there is also freight etc, its understandable why airlines make so little, and why most members of the public dont understand airline pricing.

https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a320-variants-hourly-operating-costs/

Tatou

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#3276350 28-Aug-2024 17:38

Thanks to those who have replied Some good comments and information as to reasons for price increases.

I have been referring to the middle seat as unused where in fact it is used by me just not to sit in and as far as the airports etc are concerned it is a sold seat so attracts taxes etc.

As pointed out in respect of the old works deluxe the "unused" seat had not been sold.

So my comparisons are not accurate as to the product old vs new.

Now if I could do this type of booking online I would also save $105 dollars in service charges- I may try to book two seats with the same passenger name in both if possible in the future.

The call center person said quite a few people book two seats mainly for comfort purposes.

Oblivian

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#3276352 28-Aug-2024 17:54

Fyi if you're doing the trans tasman sector now, and only normally pay for works for the kids or movies. And don't care about food.
Don't.

movies are included on all terminals now. It was changed soon after they announced there would be a change in the pricing options soon.

My last trip it took a few people a while to cotton on, expecting them to be excluded