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tdgeek
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  #2269024 3-Jul-2019 09:14
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

Take Kiwibuild. Yes, it hasnt worked, as the housing crisis went too far to allow affordable homes for the masses. What failed was the basis. Labour didn't cause that. Did national "cause" that? Not directly, but they ignored the facets that allowed foreign rich people to set prices.  

 

But like everything, National showed economic stewardship. Thats is a joke of the largest proportions. They showed ignorance and tight purse strings, let the market sort it out, but no issue with tax cuts galore in election year. That is a massive insult. Economic negligence.

 

 

They did however campagin on land/planning reform to reduce land prices. They haven't done that. National hasn't 'caused' Labour's inaction once they got into Government.

 

 

So did National, they didn't do that in 9 years. Labour hasn't done it, yet, its in progress, as is Nationals version. How long foes it tale to reform the RMA? One week or two?

 

The point is, its apparently herecy to mention the last Govt. The fact is, any new Govt inherits the good and the bad from the previous. Angry deniers will mention the former but avoid the latter




GV27
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  #2269372 3-Jul-2019 14:35
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tdgeek:

 

The point is, its apparently herecy to mention the last Govt. The fact is, any new Govt inherits the good and the bad from the previous. Angry deniers will mention the former but avoid the latter

 

 

That doesn't mean you get to promise the earth in opposition and then just fail to deliver what you promised. I believe I've used the phrase 'bait and switch' here before about this. 

 

I note we have had another fuel tax increase (we probably would have got it anyway under National) but are still apparently no closer to NZTA publishing the Light Rail business case study. 

 

This is starting to raise some serious equity issues if taxes are going to keep being collected from regions that the Government is incapable of delivering even case studies for planned infrastructure, let alone the infrastructure itself. Less of an issue if you live in the well-off inner city areas with Link Buses and so on. 




tdgeek
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  #2269374 3-Jul-2019 14:48
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

The point is, its apparently herecy to mention the last Govt. The fact is, any new Govt inherits the good and the bad from the previous. Angry deniers will mention the former but avoid the latter

 

 

That doesn't mean you get to promise the earth in opposition and then just fail to deliver what you promised. I believe I've used the phrase 'bait and switch' here before about this. 

 

I note we have had another fuel tax increase (we probably would have got it anyway under National) but are still apparently no closer to NZTA publishing the Light Rail business case study. 

 

This is starting to raise some serious equity issues if taxes are going to keep being collected from regions that the Government is incapable of delivering even case studies for planned infrastructure, let alone the infrastructure itself. Less of an issue if you live in the well-off inner city areas with Link Buses and so on. 

 

 

Ok, so the last Govt were in for 9 years. What did they do? In 9 years?  Set up a most important road list when everyone nagged about transport. Did a motorway. Offered tax cuts for the election Why does this Govt have to have every policy delivered by now?  Most of these are not two week jobs, or are they? If they had got really stuck in and done heaps it will be a case of rush jobs lol. AFAIK the RMA is planned out, the light rail and roads are still in planning stage.

 

I guess either way it will be a problem. We could let the market manage all this I guess


Fred99
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  #2269384 3-Jul-2019 15:25
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The housing issue is a poisoned chalice. You can't "fix" the cost of housing without risking crashing what will subsequently be seen as a bubble.  As property prices have risen, home owning middle NZ have congratulated themselves for prudent investment.  They won't blame themselves if there's a slump - it's a political no-win.

 

It's interesting to see now, here and in Aus, a ceiling seems to have been reached - despite low interest rates, low unemployment, and still some economic growth, housing prices have stalled in the major cities.  God help if there's another 2008, there's no plan B.


tdgeek
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  #2269389 3-Jul-2019 15:33
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Fred99:

 

The housing issue is a poisoned chalice. You can't "fix" the cost of housing without risking crashing what will subsequently be seen as a bubble.  As property prices have risen, home owning middle NZ have congratulated themselves for prudent investment.  They won't blame themselves if there's a slump - it's a political no-win.

 

It's interesting to see now, here and in Aus, a ceiling seems to have been reached - despite low interest rates, low unemployment, and still some economic growth, housing prices have stalled in the major cities.  God help if there's another 2008, there's no plan B.

 

 

Another GF is the concern globally. Some indicators are there based upon last time. Not really a lot to stimulate the economy here, as employment is so high, not many spare bums to get producing


GV27
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  #2269452 3-Jul-2019 18:35
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tdgeek:

 

Another GF is the concern globally. Some indicators are there based upon last time. Not really a lot to stimulate the economy here, as employment is so high, not many spare bums to get producing

 

 

What concerns me more about getting through another GFC is that our Government and National before it have forgotten how to build infrastructure. I just don't know if we still know how to do it. 

 

National pissed away time blocking the CRL, which could be fully operational by now if we'd moved at the first instance.

 

They suggested light rail in Auckland had a 'thirty year' timeline and don't think there is any need for it at the moment (although I note this is mostly due to Goldsmith and his sabre-rattling about 'slow trains to the airport' and he has little to say about how he'd solve West Auckland's diabolical congestion). 

 

Labour hasn't had any traction with getting Kiwibuild moving and the NZTA is just a total mess by some accounts. Even if there is a political will to build stuff, there's no pathway through the Government agencies for basics like business cases. 

 

At some point we're going to need to add hydro, build all the above stuff AND then possibly keep a pipeline of work to help mitigate any sudden upsurge in unemployment. But I worry Kiwis have forgotten how to actually deliver the stuff we badly need and may not be able to do it anymore. 

 

 


 
 
 

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tdgeek
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  #2269460 3-Jul-2019 18:51
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

Another GF is the concern globally. Some indicators are there based upon last time. Not really a lot to stimulate the economy here, as employment is so high, not many spare bums to get producing

 

 

What concerns me more about getting through another GFC is that our Government and National before it have forgotten how to build infrastructure. I just don't know if we still know how to do it. 

 

National pissed away time blocking the CRL, which could be fully operational by now if we'd moved at the first instance.

 

They suggested light rail in Auckland had a 'thirty year' timeline and don't think there is any need for it at the moment (although I note this is mostly due to Goldsmith and his sabre-rattling about 'slow trains to the airport' and he has little to say about how he'd solve West Auckland's diabolical congestion). 

 

Labour hasn't had any traction with getting Kiwibuild moving and the NZTA is just a total mess by some accounts. Even if there is a political will to build stuff, there's no pathway through the Government agencies for basics like business cases. 

 

At some point we're going to need to add hydro, build all the above stuff AND then possibly keep a pipeline of work to help mitigate any sudden upsurge in unemployment. But I worry Kiwis have forgotten how to actually deliver the stuff we badly need and may not be able to do it anymore. 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps. All of these things should have been under some movement from National and Clarke previously. Now we have low unemployment. There is an election next year. National doesnt like spending, it spends when it gets nagged enough or pre election. Labour has good ideas, but they stay as ideas too long, so yeah.Probabky comes down to the same old thing. Money and what will voters want? 


GV27
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  #2269468 3-Jul-2019 19:07
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tdgeek:

 

Perhaps. All of these things should have been under some movement from National and Clarke previously. Now we have low unemployment. There is an election next year. National doesnt like spending, it spends when it gets nagged enough or pre election. Labour has good ideas, but they stay as ideas too long, so yeah.Probabky comes down to the same old thing. Money and what will voters want? 

 

 

That's the thing though - voters want what Labour offered, and presumably wanted them to spend to do it. For whatever reason, it can't make that happen. Even when you have ministerial cheerleaders for projects, getting them through Government agencies is a nightmare. 

 

In the time it takes a major project to reach an Environment Court hearing here, it would be built in other places in the world. I just don't think we know how to actually do that anymore; endlessly drawn-out and delayed projects are part of our culture now, and we just accept it. 


tdgeek
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  #2269472 3-Jul-2019 19:13
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

Perhaps. All of these things should have been under some movement from National and Clarke previously. Now we have low unemployment. There is an election next year. National doesnt like spending, it spends when it gets nagged enough or pre election. Labour has good ideas, but they stay as ideas too long, so yeah.Probabky comes down to the same old thing. Money and what will voters want? 

 

 

That's the thing though - voters want what Labour offered, and presumably wanted them to spend to do it. For whatever reason, it can't make that happen. Even when you have ministerial cheerleaders for projects, getting them through Government agencies is a nightmare. 

 

In the time it takes a major project to reach an Environment Court hearing here, it would be built in other places in the world. I just don't think we know how to actually do that anymore; endlessly drawn-out and delayed projects are part of our culture now, and we just accept it. 

 

 

What projects have not had a business case done? AFAIK, the major projects are being worked on. NZ has many hoops as always. Its the C word, Committee.


GV27
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  #2269488 3-Jul-2019 19:48
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tdgeek:

 

What projects have not had a business case done? AFAIK, the major projects are being worked on. NZ has many hoops as always. Its the C word, Committee.

 

 

Light rail for one; was due last year initially. 


tdgeek
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  #2269564 3-Jul-2019 23:00
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

What projects have not had a business case done? AFAIK, the major projects are being worked on. NZ has many hoops as always. Its the C word, Committee.

 

 

Light rail for one; was due last year initially. 

 

 

Ok

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12220122

 

They said in April, there will be some direction in around couple of months, so needs to be soon. It says its complex. Earlier it was stated that its complex due to coming up with not just this solution but that fact that it needs to be part of the overall Auckand plan.Rather than doing project A then B then C independently. That makes sense to me. I guess they could make an estimate and just build the rail, but that's risky. What is another solution? Nationals was 2.6B and ws no light rail but they were thinking about that. Was there plan smaller so could have been done quicker? 


GV27
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  #2269731 4-Jul-2019 10:42
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tdgeek:

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12220122

 

They said in April, there will be some direction in around couple of months, so needs to be soon. It says its complex. Earlier it was stated that its complex due to coming up with not just this solution but that fact that it needs to be part of the overall Auckand plan.Rather than doing project A then B then C independently. That makes sense to me. I guess they could make an estimate and just build the rail, but that's risky. What is another solution? Nationals was 2.6B and ws no light rail but they were thinking about that. Was there plan smaller so could have been done quicker? 

 

 

I'm guessing National's was the East West Link with the busway tacked on; the EW Link was fairly advanced in the planning from memory.

 

The LRT had some unsolicited approaches from Superfund and others looking to invest and it seems it's totally railroaded the project - Auckland Council had a very clear vision for three central branch lines at one stage before the Light Rail work was handed off to NZTA. Since then... crickets. 


Aredwood
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  #2270147 4-Jul-2019 20:46

tdgeek:

 

RMA details

 

https://www.kensingtonswan.com/news-updates-and-events/government-announces-two-stage-rma-reforms/

 

 

 

 

Unfortunatly, most of those changes will just make the RMA more restrictive.

 

 

  • Repealing section 360D, which will reduce the powers of the Minister for the Environment to prohibit or overturn local plan rules;
  • Removing various sections that preclude public notification and appeals for subdivision and residential activity resource consents;
  • Repealing section 360G which extended the application of fast-tracking provisions;
  • Reversing the section 11 changes to the subdivision presumption (so that subdivision will require a resource consent unless a plans specifies otherwise);
  • Reinstating various financial contributions which were set to phase out under the 2017 amendments;
  • Allowing applicants to suspend the processing of non-notified consent applications;
  • Introducing the ability for councils to suspend the processing of resource consent applications pending payment of administrative charges;
  • Extending the time periods under section 330B to lodge retrospective resource consents for emergency works;
  • Enabling councils to review conditions of multiple resource consents under section 128 (this is targeted specifically at freshwater resource users);
  • Clarifying the legal status of deemed permitted activities under Part 3;
  • Increasing enforcement penalties for stock exclusion offences across sections 360 and 338; and
  • Clarifying who can be appointed as alternate Environment Judges under sections 249 and 250.

 

 

 

Especially the first 3. As they will just give the NIMBYs more power to stop development from happening.

 

Although the last 3 and the retrospective consent changes are good things.

 

 

 

These changes definitely won't make any difference to reduce house prices and other deadweight costs on the economy. (Things like artificially high power prices and carbon emissions due to the extra RMA related costs to build renewable generation). And they definitely wont be doing anything to remove indirect subsidies to inefficient industries / sectors etc. Eg - Burning extra fossil fuels both directly and to generate power, meaning extra profits to the fossil fuel companies. Because RMA costs have ruined the economic viability of building more renewable generation, that would have undercut fossil fuels on price if it could have been built without unnecessary expense. Landlords with krapi rental properties receiving higher rent than what they otherwise would. As higher house prices caused by the RMA, mean that rents have to increase until landlords can justify providing more rental properties. But existing landlords get the main benefit of those rent increases, as they get more rent without needing to provide better properties.






tdgeek
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  #2270241 5-Jul-2019 07:45
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So, RMA will never change. The previous Govt made very few changes. As Bridges said, when they could have done more they should have. This was very early on. The coalition partners later declined as Nationals changes were weak. Watered down was the term used. So RMA will stay as it is, with just tweaks

 

 


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