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ockel
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  #3243403 31-May-2024 18:30
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mudguard:

 

I can see this going both ways. I work in finance, a few years back there was legislation (I think) that meant companies could only impose fines that reflected the cost. So if you were late on a bill you couldn't be charged a $100 late fee if it was in reality $15 work for someone. 

 

Or the other side of that, something that is heavily subsidised that suddenly becomes user pays. Take motorbikes vs cars

 

Car Rego is $106 per year.

 

50cc Scooter is $400 per year. Because of the ACC component I assume. I guess you could argue it both ways. Both users are paying an ACC portion that reflects their risk profile. 

 

 

ACC is an interesting beast.  More akin to a state-owned insurance company than a Govt dept.  Adjustment of earner levies from year to year reflecting risk (like insurance premium adjustments), investments to cover long tail costs (like a life assurer) etc etc.  Is it efficient?  One would have to benchmark it to be sure which is virtually impossible but the cost-to-income ratios should mirror the insurance industry.  I somewhat agreed with what was planned in terms of income insurance.  ACC could be increased in scope to cover long term health conditions and disability etc rather than just accident related benefits.  Its the right structure and should be funded by a ring-fenced levy from earnings.  [Other aspects of the scheme I disagreed with but thats moot]





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Kyanar
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  #3243449 31-May-2024 22:27
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freitasm:

 

Ah but that's red tape and will kill the tourism industry. And we can't have that. Everyone needs to pay for the tourism industry to survive. Even if it means my tax paying for the profits of the ski operators.

 

Because all trickle-down...

 

/sarcasm

 

 

The existence of ACC and full no-fault accident insurance including for visitors was the trade-off for losing the right to sue for personal injury. Do you really want to return to an American or Australian style system with ambulance chasing "no win no fee" lawyers showing up to every broken ankle suing for millions?

 

Illnesses are a different story of course - I know for a fact that DHBs used to write off millions in uncollectable medical bills for those, and Te Whatu Ora no doubt still does.


sir1963
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  #3243455 31-May-2024 22:44
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Kyanar:

 

The existence of ACC and full no-fault accident insurance including for visitors was the trade-off for losing the right to sue for personal injury. Do you really want to return to an American or Australian style system with ambulance chasing "no win no fee" lawyers showing up to every broken ankle suing for millions?

 

Illnesses are a different story of course - I know for a fact that DHBs used to write off millions in uncollectable medical bills for those, and Te Whatu Ora no doubt still does.

 

 

We have a reciprocal arrangement with some other countries, eg the UK where by if you go to A&E and are hospitalised there is no cost.

 

I spent 3 days in Chelsea-Westminster Hospital some years back.

 

Doctors visits and non urgent medical requirements on the other hand you do pay for.




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  #3243508 1-Jun-2024 11:37
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sir1963:

 

We have a reciprocal arrangement with some other countries, eg the UK where by if you go to A&E and are hospitalised there is no cost.

 

I spent 3 days in Chelsea-Westminster Hospital some years back.

 

Doctors visits and non urgent medical requirements on the other hand you do pay for.

 

 

Absolutely correct. If you go to the UK and get sick and go to emergency, the NHS treats you for free just like back in NZ (and if you go to a GP, you can be treated as an NHS patient if you ask). And in Australia you're covered under Medicare like an Australian. I do believe there's some paperwork involved in some countries though - Australia requires you apply for a reciprocal benefits Medicare card for example.

 

The issue surfaces when visitors get sick and come from countries without RHCAs (or where reciprocal treatment would mean an eye watering bill and bankruptcy such as the US).


quickymart
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  #3243652 2-Jun-2024 12:11
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https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/02/nicola-willis-govt-committed-to-funding-promised-cancer-drugs/

 

Is this a broken campaign promise (to fund medication), or yet another case of the Government endlessly blaming the previous one for the current situation?


michaelmurfy
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  #3243773 2-Jun-2024 14:51
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@quickymart they did it to themselves. I know of at-least $2.9bn they can use to help fund this and other things. They could even introduce capital gains that’ll help give more money too. 





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GV27
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  #3243782 2-Jun-2024 15:42
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michaelmurfy:

 

@quickymart they did it to themselves. I know of at-least $2.9bn they can use to help fund this and other things. They could even introduce capital gains that’ll help give more money too. 

 

 

You only make money off a capital gains tax if prices for things keep climbing, which we don't really want in the first place. If we hadn't ran the printers hot during COVID and we'd seen a subtstantial walkback in prices then it would have been a good opportunity to bring in something like that, but we didn't and it had already been ruled out (the infamous 'Captain's Call') by that point anyway. 


 
 
 

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GV27
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  #3243783 2-Jun-2024 15:46
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quickymart:

 

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/02/nicola-willis-govt-committed-to-funding-promised-cancer-drugs/

 

Is this a broken campaign promise (to fund medication), or yet another case of the Government endlessly blaming the previous one for the current situation?

 

 

Yes, definitely needs to be chalked up as a broken promise from National. That's two big things they've done post-election that are pretty disappointing - the other being walking back on the changes in abatement thresholds for WFFTC. 

But this also should probably be chalked up as another example of why Labour were going to have to either continue to cut spending (possibly even harder than National) or flop on their promise of no changes to taxes. Planned unemployment under Robertson's last Budget was higher than what is being estimated under National, but that hasn't stopped Labour trying to campaign on National 'putting people out of work'. 

 

https://x.com/nzlabour/status/1796008532157903109

 

 


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  #3244046 3-Jun-2024 11:08
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michaelmurfy:

 

@quickymart they did it to themselves. I know of at-least $2.9bn they can use to help fund this and other things. They could even introduce capital gains that’ll help give more money too. 

 

 

Bomber had a rather scathing take on the whole thing too: https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2024/06/02/mediawatch-nicola-willis-comes-across-like-a-ghoul-on-qa-trainwreck-interview/

 

 


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  #3244086 3-Jun-2024 16:03
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GV27:

 

You only make money off a capital gains tax if prices for things keep climbing, which we don't really want in the first place. 

 

 

'We' objectively do want prices for things to keep climbing, otherwise we would stop voting for governments pushing policies that guarantee it. And I'm not just talking National here; the Labour governments are just as bad. Neither of them will ever enact policies which will cause house prices fall, ever, because it would be electoral suicide. At least while the tenant class don't bother to come out and out-vote the landlords.





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mudguard
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  #3244093 3-Jun-2024 16:38
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SaltyNZ:

 

At least while the tenant class don't bother to come out and out-vote the landlords.

 

 

I wonder if that is a future possibility? I guess the issue is perhaps they're not inclined to vote, I mean I get it, why would you. But if owner occupier numbers keep dropping then perhaps in a generation or two there would be a significant number of have nots to challenge the status quo. 


freitasm

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  #3244124 3-Jun-2024 18:34
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Oh, dear. Nicola Willis tries to justify the budget (interview with Jack Tame).

 

 





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ockel
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  #3244260 4-Jun-2024 10:08
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quickymart:

 

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/02/nicola-willis-govt-committed-to-funding-promised-cancer-drugs/

 

Is this a broken campaign promise (to fund medication), or yet another case of the Government endlessly blaming the previous one for the current situation?

 

 

Absolutely its a broken promise. But how long before it was acknowledged Kiwibuild was a broken promise?  Not hitting 10,000 homes in a year?  Not hitting 1,000 homes in a year?  How about ALR?  Was going to be started by the 2020 election.  Not a single metre of track (or even works started) by the 2023 election. 

 

But the delay on cancer drugs and the comment made: "glad you didn't have to...... go to an emergency room, call the helpline, call a suicide prevention line" segues nicely into a discussion about HealthNZ (HNZ) and the whole shared services/cost centre model.

 

The irony is not lost on me that the left-leaning government established HNZ rather than the traditional cost cutting right-leaning government.  But HNZ was established because the MoH has essentially become a policy-wonk dominated entity that is more concerned with box-ticking and rationing than trying to find the best way to deliver health services.  Couple that with the siloed fiefdoms that the DHB's had become and you have a recipe for wanting to start with a blank sheet of paper.

 

MoH continues with setting policy, HNZ is established to deliver healthcare, breaking down the DHB silos and getting more efficient outcomes by reducing duplication.  [Interestingly the inaugural HNZ chairmans editorial in the NZHerald last year talked about policy teams within HNZ so the concept of zero duplication between MoH and HNZ went out the door early].  Imagine if you moved from one branch office to another and had to apply for your role, redo your employment contract, had to learn new IT systems as part of your onboarding etc.  Completely ludicrous, right?  Totally inefficient but thats how it is moving from one DHB to another.  How about the inability to have a radiologist undertake second readings remotely rather than be onsite in the same hospital/city?  Disparate IT systems, lack of common architecture, antiquated application environments. 

 

You would think that removing this duplication and freeing up healthcare funding such that it could be spent where its needed most (ie on treating patients) would be a key goal of all the stakeholders.  Got to be better for NZInc, right?  And that everyone would want that outcome for health in NZ?  Surprise, surprise the removal of duplication is going to result in job losses.  No point replicating roles in each and every city.  But unions opposed this is.  Loss of jobs bad.  Not the RDA, not ASMS, not NZNO.  But the PSA.  Those self-interested groups that stood to lose their jobs.  Totally agree that the PSA should represent workers rights, but surely it can see the bigger picture which is that the vast waste of money in the bureaucracy of the healthcare system is not good for the people that need the healthcare the most, the people that everyone employed in the healthcare system is supposed to be completely focused on - the clients/customers/users otherwise known as the patients. 

 

So when one says "glad you didn't have to...... go to an emergency room, call the helpline, call a suicide prevention line" I think why cant we reduce the unnecessary overhead that contributes little to the end outcome and redirect the funds to making sure that the suicide prevention line is well funded, that St John is fully funded, that we employ more doctors, nurses, GP's so we actually have the right outcome.





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freitasm

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  #3244265 4-Jun-2024 10:34
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But what happens when the government has its way with job reductions but doesn't provide budget for these services improvements?

Or is it just to fund tax cuts for rich people?

And enough whataboutism. The government has released a budget. It is all on it now.




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michaelmurfy
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  #3244270 4-Jun-2024 10:48
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ockel: Absolutely its a broken promise. But how long before it was acknowledged Kiwibuild was a broken promise?  Not hitting 10,000 homes in a year?  Not hitting 1,000 homes in a year?  How about ALR?  Was going to be started by the 2020 election.  Not a single metre of track (or even works started) by the 2023 election.

 

Good ole whataboutism aside you're forgetting Covid was also a thing around that time also...

 

But this is interesting:

 





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