The conservative religious right crazy stupid people

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#2612710 29-Nov-2020 18:24

Fred99:
"Turning the other cheek" seems very inconsistent with centuries of atrocities carried out in God's name.

The church has changed quite a bit over time, in the case of Catholicism particularly in the last 30-40 years or so, see for example Pope Francis' recent comments on Covid19. The problem isn't the general masses, it's the extremes, whether they be religious or atheist. In particular in recent history Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, and most recently Trump were all atheists.

Fred99

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#2612714 29-Nov-2020 18:55

neb:
Fred99:

"Turning the other cheek" seems very inconsistent with centuries of atrocities carried out in God's name.

The church has changed quite a bit over time, in the case of Catholicism particularly in the last 30-40 years or so, see for example Pope Francis' recent comments on Covid19. The problem isn't the general masses, it's the extremes, whether they be religious or atheist. In particular in recent history Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, and most recently Trump were all atheists.

The Pope's present stance on Covid (letter to NYT) in the wake of the SCOTUS ruling on NY churches should be a wakeup call.

Democratically elected lawmakers' rulings overturned by a slim majority of unelected partisan theocratic appointees (for life). American Ayatollahs deciphering an old document.

kingdragonfly

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#2612715 29-Nov-2020 19:05

Neb, while I almost always agree with your views, I believe you've fallen into the association / apologetics fallacy.

Regarding Trump's religious beliefs, I don't know if self-worship counts.

You could easily write a book trying to come up with a sane answer to the insane question "What are Trump's religious beliefs?"

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#2612767 29-Nov-2020 21:16

Rikkitic:

Batman: You guys are prudent to choose to mock a belief system that turns the other cheek. I recall something similar in France a few weeks ago that followed something in France a few years ago when they slightly joked about a different group, but was met with some retaliation of sorts.

Like this, you mean?

'Watching Trump and the Christian right go after Islam for being homophobic is, frankly, jaw-dropping. If any community in this country has shown itself to be anti-gay, it is conservative Christians and their decades of peddling hatred for gay people, comparing homosexuality to pedophilia and bestiality, claiming AIDS is divine punishment, pushing “cures” for homosexuality, and blocking laws that prevent gays not just from marrying but from being discriminated against. A Christian pastor, who has enjoyed the company of Bobby Jindal, Mike Huckabee, and Ted Cruz, recently said that, according to the Bible, homosexuals “deserve the death penalty.” Now the very same people who, just last month, were comparing trans people to predators who would use the wrong bathroom to hunt for child victims are suddenly lining up to defend gays from radical Islam.

'And yet, in the wake of the Orlando shooting, some Christians came out to say what they really thought of those gays in that club. One Christian preacher posted a video sermon in which he praised the Orlando shootings, saying, “The good news is that there’s 50 less pedophiles in this world, because, you know, these homosexuals are a bunch of disgusting perverts and pedophiles.”'

- Foreignpolicy.com

I don't know, I'm just pointing out that it's rather convenient to generalize mock - that sort of activity is something you generally associate with white supremacist sites etc - rather than to name and shame a person or incident.

I think stating facts and all, is fair game. What you've posted is fair game.

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#2612772 29-Nov-2020 21:22

neb:
Fred99:

"Turning the other cheek" seems very inconsistent with centuries of atrocities carried out in God's name.

The church has changed quite a bit over time, in the case of Catholicism particularly in the last 30-40 years or so, see for example Pope Francis' recent comments on Covid19. The problem isn't the general masses, it's the extremes, whether they be religious or atheist. In particular in recent history Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, and most recently Trump were all atheists.

Agreed. Militants on both sides are apparent.

Facts are fair, by all means post every heinous fact out there just to show how stupid some people are.

But I have nothing against good people - I think the most selfless people live their lives in the name of religion - mother Teresa for example - but these guys don't seek attention and don't sell papers.

The worst things are also done in the name of not only religion but also science.

In fact, science itself birthed out from religions in the past - a common ancestor of sorts

This famous scientist explains -

(please ignore the title, the meat starts somewhere about 4 mins)

Fred99

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#2612849 29-Nov-2020 22:04

Batman:

In fact, religion and science used to be the same thing apparently

That's a disingenuous simplification of reality. I assume you are trying to argue that religious faith and scientific reason argue equally valid contemporary "truths". That's crazy. Like going to a barber for advice about a hip replacement because barbers and surgeons "used to be the same thing".

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#2613048 30-Nov-2020 09:24

I meant in the past the same priests were both the religious leaders and the scientists.

When I find the list I'll post them here

AliExpress

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

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#2613159 30-Nov-2020 11:28

longer version https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_the_Catholic_Church

list as promised https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_clergy_scientists#:~:text=These%20churchmen%2Dscientists%20include%20Nicolaus,Christopher%20Clavius%2C%20Nicolas%20Steno%2C%20Athanasius

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#2613183 30-Nov-2020 11:57

Batman:

In fact, religion and science used to be the same thing apparently

While there were some religious people who were also scientists, it doesn't make the assertion "religion and science used to be the same thing".

There maybe an intersection but many were not religious, and vice-versa.

Your list is "Catholics" and I would add "Muslim scientists in medieval times" for balance.

Rikkitic

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#2613192 30-Nov-2020 12:15

I don't understand the point of this. As @Fred99 pointed out, in the past barbers used to be surgeons. So what?

During the Middle Ages, most learning that survived the collapse of civilisation was the purview of the church. Knowledge is power and the church kept it to itself. The unwashed masses did not have access to education and literacy was mainly confined to the priesthood so religious texts could be studied and interpreted.

It is not surprising in these circumstances that some priests were also 'scientists'. Curiosity is a human affliction once the belly is fed. There would have been a degree of awareness of scientific advances in the Arab world. Those who were so inclined might have carried out experiments in order to acquire understanding for the greater glory of god. Some would have written about this, so others of their order could benefit from the knowledge. The fact that priests did this, who were the only people equipped to do it, does not strike me as particularly revealing. As the world moved on and learning became more widespread and the power of the church waned, followers of religion and science were able to take different paths, though much crossover remained, as it does to this day.

Many people, especially fundamentalists, seem somewhat confused about the true nature of religion. The notion of a personal god who monitors everything you do and maintains a naughty and nice list and likes to hear prayers, is pretty primitive. People can call it religion if they like, but it is closer to superstition than enlightenment. Not many serious scientists are likely to combine this with a pursuit of the truth.

The idea that there might be some kind of ultimate entity, a cosmic awareness, a 'conscious' force that makes rules and moves things around, is not repulsive to most scientists. The Universe is vast and unknowable and it may well be aware in some way we cannot yet fathom. But whatever aspect that awareness may take on, it won't be in the form of a jolly bearded fat man in the sky.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2613450 30-Nov-2020 15:52

Interesting article about the United States, and the "pilgrims".

I didn't realize they were Calvinists, who believed even before pilgrims were born, God had decided if they should go to heaven / hell. No pilgrim could change their fate. (Which begs the question: Why not go on a murdering spree, since God must be using you as a holy puppet?)

They separated from the Church of England, who believed through good works and faith, Christians could secure their own salvation. (Most would say quite a bit more positive philosophy)

Politico: How America Outgrew the Pilgrims

The 400th anniversary of the first Puritans landing at Plymouth is passing with little fanfare—and that’s OK.

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#2618783 9-Dec-2020 16:05

From right-wing Fox News, Rupert Murdoch co-founded in 1985, resigned in 2019.

Tucker Carlson: The Christmas lockdowns are here -- but not for those who ordered them

...Death is inevitable.

That may be the one thing you're not allowed to say in this country, but it's still true, and maybe we should pause before we destroy the living in the name of trying to eliminate it.

Politicians understand this threat.

They've figured out that Christmas is bigger than they are and as a result, some of them are trying hard to cancel it. ...

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#2618861 9-Dec-2020 19:40

kingdragonfly: From right-wing Fox News, Rupert Murdoch co-founded in 1985, resigned in 2019.

Tucker Carlson: The Christmas lockdowns are here -- but not for those who ordered them

...Death is inevitable.

That may be the one thing you're not allowed to say in this country, but it's still true, and maybe we should pause before we destroy the living in the name of trying to eliminate it.

Politicians understand this threat.

They've figured out that Christmas is bigger than they are and as a result, some of them are trying hard to cancel it. ...

That's a religious related issue?

kingdragonfly

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#2618948 9-Dec-2020 21:06

It's Fox News "war on Christmas" annual event.

Last year it was no Christmas Trees on Starbuck coffee cups.

Previous year to that was gingerbread people.

Fox News also has a deep resentment to saying "Happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas."

neb

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#2618951 9-Dec-2020 21:13

kingdragonfly: It's Fox News "war on Christmas" annual event.

All part of the liberal/left-wing/Democrat/socialist/whatever conspiracy, dont'cha know? Everyone else has Christmas, Fox News viewers have another conspiracy to revel in.

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