quickymart:

 

...there are some really thick people on Facebook...

Wait, what?

SJB:

Not applicable to just Trump. Only the justice system should be able to overturn a conviction.

 

Presumably dreamed up by the Founding Fathers so that only the 'right' people were executed/imprisoned ie not the Presidents mates.

neb:

SJB:

 

Not applicable to just Trump. Only the justice system should be able to overturn a conviction.

 

Presumably dreamed up by the Founding Fathers so that only the 'right' people were executed/imprisoned ie not the Presidents mates.

 

Not necessarily, they're typically used to overturn miscarriages or misapplications of justice, often decades after the event. For example if you look at some of Obama's pardons/clemency it was for stuff like someone convicted of defacing currency in the 1960s and similar trivia. His mass pardons/clemency were for drug offences from people caught by mandatory sentencing requirements in the War on Some Drugs, also arguably a miscarriage/misuse of justice. It's Trump that's been using the power to pardon all of his cronies and sycophants, and it's mostly pardons, never clemency. Other presidents have misused it a bit to some extent, but not the way Trump has.

Sorry but I still firmly believe my first statement.

The criminal code of every country partakes so much of necessary severity, that without an easy access to exceptions in favor of unfortunate guilt, justice would wear a countenance too sanguinary and cruel.

SJB:

 

Fred99:

 

So, a US president can now pardon criminals who break the law for the benefit of the president.

 

This is from the "law and order" party.  Banana Republic USA for the next month.

 

 

Not applicable to just Trump. Only the justice system should be able to overturn a conviction.

 

Presumably dreamed up by the Founding Fathers so that only the 'right' people were executed/imprisoned ie not the Presidents mates.

 

Meanwhile in Russia ... (two days ago)

neb: The Federalist Papers give a pretty clear rationale for the use of presidential pardons:

The criminal code of every country partakes so much of necessary severity, that without an easy access to exceptions in favor of unfortunate guilt, justice would wear a countenance too sanguinary and cruel.

It wasn't really until the late 20th century that it began to be abused more and more, and even more so in the 21st (not just by Trump).

Apparently FDR granted the most pardons although he was President for a long time. I've no idea though if his pardons were 'reasonable'.

SJB:

Apparently FDR granted the most pardons although he was President for a long time. I've no idea though if his pardons were 'reasonable'.

No happy endings is right.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/123810525/no-happy-endings-for-beauty-and-the-beast

Hypothetical thought here:
Pretend Trump had a stroke or something before he started opening his mouth and ranting on about election fraud bs (note that I don't want him to die or anything, this is just hypothetical). The election played out as it did, and Joe won.

At this point Trump stands up and concedes the election (like he should have done) and starts the handover to Joe's crowd.

Would his sycophants still be jumping up and down screaming election fraud, or would they agree with him that Joe won fair and square, and it's time to move on? Bear in mind in my scenario Trump has never said one word about election fraud.

quickymart:
Hypothetical thought here:

 

[...]

 

Why not "what if Trump was an emphatic and competent President"?

He has been talking about voter fraud since before he became President, and have been pre-empting this election loss with lies of voter fraud to be almost since he got into office.

I know, I was just thinking hypothetically. It would have been nice if he had been competent, I agree.

Still, it concerns me that (somehow) 70 million Americans think he actually is competent enough to vote for him, again!

kingdragonfly: The New Yorker leading the conga line waving a "Trump 2020" flag.

And guess what? The party had a shared buffet.