Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3293116 5-Oct-2024 07:40

sir1963:
First step to privatisation ?

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/10/04/inquiry-recommends-new-entity-to-manage-school-property/

Nah.

Maybe the first step to paranoia.

sir1963

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#3293118 5-Oct-2024 07:59

Handle9:
sir1963:

First step to privatisation ?

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/10/04/inquiry-recommends-new-entity-to-manage-school-property/

Nah.

Maybe the first step to paranoia.

Oh the education system may be still public but they will get to "lease" modern privately owned property who will be able to manage and fund it so much better than the ministry of education who needs to concentrate on their task of educating our children, not property management...etc...BS. Fits in well with seymours "for profit" education ideology too....

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#3293122 5-Oct-2024 08:11

Ok so the second step to paranoia.

GV27

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#3293128 5-Oct-2024 08:32

Handle9: Ok so the second step to paranoia.

John Key is definitely going to privatise ACC any second now...

sen8or

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#3293728 7-Oct-2024 08:02

Didn't they try that once, or something similar (something like putting your ACC to southern cross or similar?). I seem to remember a point where you had options about public health / hospital and you had to pay for various treatments. Probably 30 or so years ago so I could be on the wrong track

ezbee

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#3293750 7-Oct-2024 09:28

Watering down ACC.
Its been a long running thread for National.
ACT being hyper privatization of everything this has to be higher on their list.
Maybe some of the 'Secret Lobbyists' with access cards we are not allowed to know about are from Insurance Industry.
Not just Big Tobacco, Trucking etc.
Lawyers may also like more litigious economy, and that would further boost Insurance Industry.
A virtuous cycle. :-)
As ACT are running the Government now. :-)

Y2002
National’s disaster plan to reprivatise ACC
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/national%E2%80%99s-disaster-plan-reprivatise-acc#:~:text=New%20Zealanders%20would%20be%20exposed%20to%20huge%20financial%20risk%20under

There has been a watering down and some devolution/privatization of ACC responsibilities.
This works as well as expected.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/22/exclusive-acc-found-critical-issues-in-care-of-injured-workers-at-talleys-group-in-2019/#:~:text=Documents%20obtained%20by%201News%20under%20the%20Official%20Information

""
Both Talley’s and AFFCO are members of ACC’s Accredited Employers Programme, a special arrangement which allows the companies to handle their own injury claims in-house.

It gives the food manufacturing giant the power to “act in the shoes” of ACC and accept or deny claims filed by its own staff. They have the responsibility for all medical care for injured employees, and must arrange weekly compensation and rehabilitation.
""

GV27

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#3293967 7-Oct-2024 13:58

Man it's like clockwork.

"Please ignore all the times we said that Nats were definitely going to do this and didn't, it's definitely gonna happen this time!"

Aren't there enough actual dumb things being done by this government that people don't have to revert to this old chestnut these days?

If the Nats secretly want to privatise ACC then they are very very bad at actually doing it.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

tdgeek

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#3294022 7-Oct-2024 16:54

sir1963:

tdgeek:

The Other business etc should pay CGT

Re the earlier examples, your still dealing with your home as one asset. Its the same house it was 10, 20 years ago. If you sell to move overseas you transfer your one home overseas. Give it away, that's fine. Death, its still one home that you are passing on. Move in with a new partner, yes that's a bonus (unless it turns to custard) but its the one home that you bought, and its still the same inherent value as the next door house 20 years later. Yes, house to salary ratio can and has changed over time, but you are hedged. your 3 bedder house is still equal to the 3 bedder next door

I am guessing its that you don't think YOU should have to pay the tax ?

Not at all. The question is did I make a capital gain on my own home? If I sold my home and bought another of like size and location, I am no better or worse off. I have one own home, its the same as it was last year, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I have made no gain. If I sold it and bought a smaller older home, further out, that's not a gain either, even though I will have plenty of cash. Same as I sold my $60,000 car and got a $15000 car, I have $45000 in the bank, but no real gain, I just traded metal for money

sir1963

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#3294071 7-Oct-2024 17:03

tdgeek:

Not at all. The question is did I make a capital gain on my own home? If I sold my home and bought another of like size and location, I am no better or worse off. I have one own home, its the same as it was last year, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I have made no gain. If I sold it and bought a smaller older home, further out, that's not a gain either, even though I will have plenty of cash. Same as I sold my $60,000 car and got a $15000 car, I have $45000 in the bank, but no real gain, I just traded metal for money

So if a person sells one rental and buys another there is also no capital gain ?

Or is this a special carve out...?

freitasm

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#3294090 7-Oct-2024 17:17

sir1963:

tdgeek:

Not at all. The question is did I make a capital gain on my own home? If I sold my home and bought another of like size and location, I am no better or worse off. I have one own home, its the same as it was last year, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I have made no gain. If I sold it and bought a smaller older home, further out, that's not a gain either, even though I will have plenty of cash. Same as I sold my $60,000 car and got a $15000 car, I have $45000 in the bank, but no real gain, I just traded metal for money

So if a person sells one rental and buys another there is also no capital gain ?

Or is this a special carve out...?

The question should be;:

"Is this your only home and do you live in it?"
"Are you buying another one to live in, with the proceedings from this sale?"
"Are you selling this home because you are in need of the money?"
"Are you selling this home to give the proceedings as gift?"

That would weed out investors straight away. Investors pay tax, but homeowners don't pay tax.

Easy.

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#3294092 7-Oct-2024 17:22

sir1963:

tdgeek:

Not at all. The question is did I make a capital gain on my own home? If I sold my home and bought another of like size and location, I am no better or worse off. I have one own home, its the same as it was last year, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I have made no gain. If I sold it and bought a smaller older home, further out, that's not a gain either, even though I will have plenty of cash. Same as I sold my $60,000 car and got a $15000 car, I have $45000 in the bank, but no real gain, I just traded metal for money

So if a person sells one rental and buys another there is also no capital gain ?

Or is this a special carve out...?

Rentals are a business. You have them, I had them, so I'm not oblivious to the question. The home is the roof over your head

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#3294093 7-Oct-2024 17:25

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/530051/pm-side-steps-questions-on-declined-dunedin-flood-risk-mitigation-plan

Is this good or bad? It's certainly not a flattering headline.

sir1963

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#3294324 7-Oct-2024 22:23

freitasm:

[

The question should be;:

"Is this your only home and do you live in it?"
"Are you buying another one to live in, with the proceedings from this sale?"
"Are you selling this home because you are in need of the money?"
"Are you selling this home to give the proceedings as gift?"
That would weed out investors straight away. Investors pay tax, but homeowners don't pay tax.

Easy.

And if you down size ( as older people tend to do) ?
Irrelevant, you are making a special carveout.
The same applies to an owner occupier, as well as for other assets
The same applies to an owner occupier, as well as for other assets

Landlords are the ONLY investors who are unable to claim depreciation , just like home owners can't
Landlords are the ONLY investors who are unable to claim interest expenses, just like home owners can't
The government was (and is still ?) the WORST landlord for healthy homes.

If homeowners have other assets/investments, cash in the bank, shares, etc then they too pay tax on the profits.
Buying shares generates zero jobs, yet unless you are trading there is no capital gains tax paid.
Does buying a house by a company have capital gains when it is just the shares that get bought and sold?
Buying Matchbox toys for a hobby or other collectables and making significant capital gains also has zero capital gains taxes.

The cost to build houses is not going to get cheaper, where do people who can not afford to buy live ?
Rental property is worth something over $600 Billion, how much of that capital should tax payers hold ?, how many hospitals won't get built ?
Would we as a country be better off with $600 Billion invested in public transport, infrastructure redevelopment (water, power, sewerage, etc)
Reality is not everyone can own, nor does everyone want to own a house, where do they go ?
Do parents who buy a house for there disabled children also get taxed more for saving the tax payers money
How many ghost houses do we need for divorces, school leavers, immigrants....etc
Buying an existing house is far cheaper than building , who would build ? The government is already saying's going to have to guarantee developers because they are pulling out too.

Should businesses who do not employ people get taxed more ? They can make all the other tax deductions that home owners can't , where is the real difference between them and waged workers.

There is no right answer, but a capital gains tax will just distort the markets in different ways. NZs issue has been decades of lack of investment, making it worse will simply make it worse for much longer.

Next issue is of course climate change. the government does not have enough money already to cope with this coming event, imagine how bad it will be if they are suddenly reponsible or even MORE housing, where is that money going to come from ?