Capital Gains Tax proposed

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#2187618 26-Feb-2019 15:19

GV27:

tdgeek:

Can you clarify what you mean with the bolded?

If the birth boost created a larger block of voters, how are they to blame?

What did the boomers do in rewriting tax law 1999-2007?

Genuinely interested

Not include a comprehensive capital gains tax then?

:-) Not quite the lucid reply I normally see from you! I'm keen to hear the details of each point though

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#2187635 26-Feb-2019 15:59

I am being lazy, but does the proposal allow for reclaiming losses after v-day as a offset on income tax paid? Ie if the housing crash in Aussie comes here around 2021 and houses end up selling for less than they were valued, how is that being dealt with?

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#2187641 26-Feb-2019 16:09

tdgeek:

:-) Not quite the lucid reply I normally see from you! I'm keen to hear the details of each point though

TD, this isn't difficult. The same group of people who were able to take advantage of the not-fit-for-purpose tax legislation to make megabucks just happened to be the same cohort of people who were in charge of keeping the tax legislation fit for purpose, but didn't.

The thing is they were all in on it. Even the Greens with their crazy 'private super scheme that owns one investment property that happens to be my house that I also get a parliamentary accommodation supplement to pay the rent on' or however that worked.

GV27

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#2187655 26-Feb-2019 16:27

(it's the "Nats hate CGT because they own houses" argument, but lazier 😅)

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#2187668 26-Feb-2019 16:41

GV27:
(it's the "Nats hate CGT because they own houses" argument, but lazier 😅)

Rightio. I picked that up , I wasn’t sure if the general baby boomers were to blame also

wsnz

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#2188870 28-Feb-2019 14:23

Michael Cullen advocated exempting Iwi from CGT last night when interviewed on the news (yes, the one time I've watched it in the last year and it actually had something worthwhile).

I'm certain not all of his TWG colleagues would share that view.

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#2188874 28-Feb-2019 14:25

networkn:

I am being lazy, but does the proposal allow for reclaiming losses after v-day as a offset on income tax paid? Ie if the housing crash in Aussie comes here around 2021 and houses end up selling for less than they were valued, how is that being dealt with?

That doesn't appear in the report, however I would expect Inland Revenue to issue a ruling (probably a no), then it would be challenged in court. The winners will of course be the lawyers and accountants in all of this.

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#2189205 1-Mar-2019 08:38

wsnz:
Michael Cullen advocated exempting Iwi from CGT last night when interviewed on the news (yes, the one time I've watched it in the last year and it actually had something worthwhile).

I haven't seen the item but I assume it's not that simple in practice.

GV27

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#2189779 2-Mar-2019 11:26

gzt:
wsnz:

Michael Cullen advocated exempting Iwi from CGT last night when interviewed on the news (yes, the one time I've watched it in the last year and it actually had something worthwhile).

I haven't seen the item but I assume it's not that simple in practice.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/exemption-proposed-capital-gains-tax-could-cards-iwi?variant=tb_v_1

To paraphrase Cullen, it's based on 'history'; is done in the name of lifting them out of economic deprivation.

One talking head interviewed suggests taxing the numbers in a bank account could be a treaty breach.

It wouldn't be unknown for the media to find a possibly inflammatory viewpoint but I am not sure I can get my head around that way of thinking.

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#2190026 2-Mar-2019 20:11

GV27:
gzt:
wsnz:

Michael Cullen advocated exempting Iwi from CGT last night when interviewed on the news (yes, the one time I've watched it in the last year and it actually had something worthwhile).

I haven't seen the item but I assume it's not that simple in practice.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/exemption-proposed-capital-gains-tax-could-cards-iwi?variant=tb_v_1

To paraphrase Cullen, it's based on 'history'; is done in the name of lifting them out of economic deprivation.

One talking head interviewed suggests taxing the numbers in a bank account could be a treaty breach.

It wouldn't be unknown for the media to find a possibly inflammatory viewpoint but I am not sure I can get my head around that way of thinking.

Traditional Maori land ownership can be complex. It's possible there are sound reasons for many cases.

Ngati Whatua for example is in a slightly different position. If I recall correctly from a few years ago they have a scheme to build and sell some luxury type housing off their land to fund other development goals.

Imo it may be more sensible for the government to take the opportunity to concretely commit to increased and equitable provision of heath and housing services and things like that which after all the cgt is intended to contribute to.

GV27

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#2193327 8-Mar-2019 07:24

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12209227

TD, I am keen to know your thoughts.

For my mind, this piece has a some critical flaws but does nicely show that we should tax Kiwisaver on realisation, not on gains as they accrue.

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#2193459 8-Mar-2019 10:34

GV27:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12209227

TD, I am keen to know your thoughts.

For my mind, this piece has a some critical flaws but does nicely show that we should tax Kiwisaver on realisation, not on gains as they accrue.

Not quite sure of your train of thought. Do you mean tax KS on realisation so they can earn compound growth on the unpaid tax through the period till realisation?

GV27

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#2193475 8-Mar-2019 10:52

tdgeek:

GV27:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12209227

TD, I am keen to know your thoughts.

For my mind, this piece has a some critical flaws but does nicely show that we should tax Kiwisaver on realisation, not on gains as they accrue.

Not quite sure of your train of thought. Do you mean tax KS on realisation so they can earn compound growth on the unpaid tax through the period till realisation?

Correct.

tdgeek

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#2193509 8-Mar-2019 11:23

GV27:

tdgeek:

GV27:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12209227

TD, I am keen to know your thoughts.

For my mind, this piece has a some critical flaws but does nicely show that we should tax Kiwisaver on realisation, not on gains as they accrue.

Not quite sure of your train of thought. Do you mean tax KS on realisation so they can earn compound growth on the unpaid tax through the period till realisation?

Correct.

Its an interesting one.

I feel we should tax everything on realisation. We do that for salary and wages, we do that for business income. We can't do that for CGT as we cannot spend paper gains. (Although we could by borrowing against them, thats a problem) Kiwisaver investment earnings is actually not one or the other. The earnings of interest are realised, but as the person has the funds locked up, they aren't realised. CGT is unrealised as that is locked away.

But, Cullen stated that there are a number of measures that nullify the KS CGT? Not for everyone or for every $ but thats the premise of it.

It would be far easier to exclude KS investments from CGT, as the end result was planned that these gains would be offset and KS would not be affected. So exclude it so its not affected.

GV27

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#2193519 8-Mar-2019 11:41

tdgeek:

Its an interesting one.

I feel we should tax everything on realisation. We do that for salary and wages, we do that for business income. We can't do that for CGT as we cannot spend paper gains. (Although we could by borrowing against them, thats a problem) Kiwisaver investment earnings is actually not one or the other. The earnings of interest are realised, but as the person has the funds locked up, they aren't realised. CGT is unrealised as that is locked away.

But, Cullen stated that there are a number of measures that nullify the KS CGT? Not for everyone or for every $ but thats the premise of it.

It would be far easier to exclude KS investments from CGT, as the end result was planned that these gains would be offset and KS would not be affected. So exclude it so its not affected.

I would have thought so too. Instead we've got some extremely weird arrangement where the majority of benefits flow through to people who will be earning less than a 40 hour week and more burden on those earning 70K+. At some point it just becomes change for the sake of change instead of rewarding those legitimately struggling to get ahead.

However I would guess that there is a revenue component to this; the fact the Govt gets to tax gains as they accrue means they have money coming in year on year. It's the only reason I can think of that they'd bother with the political risk of taking such an aggressive approach to Kiwisaver.

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