Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3374568 19-May-2025 08:36

Handle9:

I'll leave that up to you true believers. I'm far too cynical to believe in fairy stories.

Well, speaking as someone who was once told 'Listen son, there's a miserable bastard pecking order in this office and I'm first' by the senior engineer who was leaning over the table ready to punch a customer in the face only an hour earlier, all I can say is: if you don't at least try to believe things can be better then they never will be.

The real rich pricks depend on you giving up.

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PsychoSmiley

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#3374575 19-May-2025 09:01

Since there is no general NZ politics thread, these are the I am okay with:

Death/inheritance tax
Means testing the pension to ensure those that actually need it are the ones to get it, not people in still making bank at 65 and employed
Making Kiwisaver pre-tax to incentivise its use to offset the above
Giving partners 2 weeks of paid leave parental leave not this unpaid BS
Forcing those that represent us can only use the public health system so they beholden to the overall decisions they make

sir1963

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#3374579 19-May-2025 09:32

PsychoSmiley:

Since there is no general NZ politics thread, these are the I am okay with:

Death/inheritance tax
Means testing the pension to ensure those that actually need it are the ones to get it, not people in still making bank at 65 and employed
Making Kiwisaver pre-tax to incentivise its use to offset the above
Giving partners 2 weeks of paid leave parental leave not this unpaid BS
Forcing those that represent us can only use the public health system so they beholden to the overall decisions they make

When you retire, give it all to the kids or to a family trust.. And take care who you punish here. I have an intellectually handicapped son, I am his "landlord" so he has a safe warm, "forever home" in a trust. Is it fair to take that from him ?
If you are still in work, treat it like any other benefit, earn $100 a week then its $ for $. But there are some people whose job has broken them because of the heavy work they do, they should be able to retire at 50.
Make Kiwi saver compulsory, even for those on benefits, the sooner it is started the greater the benefits.
Many employers already have that.
They will still get priority, or have enough money to go overseas. They will also have private health insurance.

Most of what you want will impact the middle class, not the wealthy.

Lots of pensioners do not qualify for a community services card, even though they are high needs.... AND YES YOUR KIWI SAVER counts against you for this.
There are treatments that need you to go to the doctor every 2 days for weeks, at $60 a time it rapidly become unaffordable.

What I don't want is $20 a week tax cuts, keep that pittance and put it into health and education. "Prevention is cheaper the cure" is very real here, its going to cost to get it going , but as time goes by it will become cheaper.

But on top of that, we have a MASSIVE bill coming for climate change, whole towns will need to be moved which means rebuilding all the infrastructure , we will need to adapt to new weather cycles, etc etc.
Carbon miles will become a thing, other countries will use it to prop up and pay for their agricultural changes needed, NZ will be expensive and that "backbone of NZ" will collapse.

Handle9

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#3374675 19-May-2025 17:13

SaltyNZ:

Handle9:

I'll leave that up to you true believers. I'm far too cynical to believe in fairy stories.

Well, speaking as someone who was once told 'Listen son, there's a miserable bastard pecking order in this office and I'm first' by the senior engineer who was leaning over the table ready to punch a customer in the face only an hour earlier, all I can say is: if you don't at least try to believe things can be better then they never will be.

The real rich pricks depend on you giving up.

This proposal isn't about making things better. It's meat for the base who believe that "rich pricks" don't add anything to society and the economy is a zero sum game.

Reality is significantly more complex than this sort of nonsense. It's really hard to effectively change things and needs to be done incrementally to avoid massive unintended consequences. That of course doesn't appeal to those who want to believe that it's all someone elses fault and they shouldn't sacrifice anything to instantly effect change.

GV27

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#3374789 20-May-2025 07:39

sir1963:

Carbon miles will become a thing, other countries will use it to prop up and pay for their agricultural changes needed, NZ will be expensive and that "backbone of NZ" will collapse.

Carbon miles for passenger travel should have been a thing years ago. Going to be an extreme equity issue when it rolls in, particularly for people who have already spent years globe-trotting vs. Kiwis who never travelled much.

freitasm

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#3375106 20-May-2025 20:55

This is...Stupid. Let's not tax these poor big tech companies. Let's delay it as long as possible... Also, this was a previous government initiative and we don't like those.

The Government has decided to discharge the Digital Services Tax Bill from the legislative programme, Revenue Minister Simon Watts announced today.

The Digital Services Tax Bill was introduced in 2023 by the previous Government. It was a response to a perceived lack of progress towards developing an agreement with other countries to address the taxation challenges posed by digitalisation.

“We have been monitoring international developments and have decided not to progress the Digital Services Tax Bill at this time. A global solution has always been our preferred option, and we have been encouraged by the recent commitment of countries to the OECD work in this area,” Mr Watts says.

“New Zealand has long supported, and benefited from, collective action and the global rules-based system. By focusing on a global solution, it will enable an agreed, consistent outcome across participating countries.”

As a result of taking this action, the forecast revenues from the introduction of a Digital Services Tax no longer meet the criteria for inclusion in the Crown accounts.

gzt

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#3375118 20-May-2025 21:51

GV27: Carbon miles for passenger travel should have been a thing years ago. Going to be an extreme equity issue when it rolls in, particularly for people who have already spent years globe-trotting vs. Kiwis who never travelled much.

It is more likely the planet will go up in flames before carbon cost is applied to air travel. Imo better to avoid air travel. NZ really really needs to develop low carbon travel routes starting yesterday.

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Handle9

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#3375139 21-May-2025 04:59

freitasm:

This is...Stupid. Let's not tax these poor big tech companies. Let's delay it as long as possible... Also, this was a previous government initiative and we don't like those.

The Government has decided to discharge the Digital Services Tax Bill from the legislative programme, Revenue Minister Simon Watts announced today.

The Digital Services Tax Bill was introduced in 2023 by the previous Government. It was a response to a perceived lack of progress towards developing an agreement with other countries to address the taxation challenges posed by digitalisation.

“We have been monitoring international developments and have decided not to progress the Digital Services Tax Bill at this time. A global solution has always been our preferred option, and we have been encouraged by the recent commitment of countries to the OECD work in this area,” Mr Watts says.

“New Zealand has long supported, and benefited from, collective action and the global rules-based system. By focusing on a global solution, it will enable an agreed, consistent outcome across participating countries.”

As a result of taking this action, the forecast revenues from the introduction of a Digital Services Tax no longer meet the criteria for inclusion in the Crown accounts.

It’s been scrapped to try and avoid retaliatory sanctions from the US. It hasn’t been scrapped because of the previous government or any particular love of tech companies.

It’s probably in New Zealand’s best interests in the current climate.

SaltyNZ

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#3375141 21-May-2025 06:40

Handle9:

It’s probably in New Zealand’s best interests in the current climate.

Probably. But Trump changes his mind three times in a sentence and believes that transactional means "you give me what I want and we're done" so it's just as likely they took away a revenue source that doesn't rely on squeezing the middle class for nothing. I mean, it's not like the US told us if we canned it they'd remove the blanket tariffs they already applied, is it?

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sen8or

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#3375149 21-May-2025 08:22

Whilst $100mio isn't exactly chump change, in the grand scheme of things, its not a massive part of our tax income either. The perception of NZ punishing a US entity is far greater than the actual real world effect of that tax on any of the global tech giants, but is it worth poking the bear?

SaltyNZ

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#3375152 21-May-2025 08:33

sen8or:

Whilst $100mio isn't exactly chump change, in the grand scheme of things, its not a massive part of our tax income either. The perception of NZ punishing a US entity is far greater than the actual real world effect of that tax on any of the global tech giants, but is it worth poking the bear?

Honestly, I don't know. The bear in question has brain worms and roars and waves its d*** around randomly, alternately hoping to impress or scare the other woodlands creatures, or possibly just because it enjoys being bear enough to do so. I don't think it has the attention span to notice a baby rabbit gently brushing its toe with a leaf, but equally as such it could decide that since we haven't already gotten rid of GST as demanded then both us and the penguin islands need to be eaten immediately.

EDIT to add: and anyway, Trump and his idiot yesmen can get in the sea. Someone's got to stand up to them, and we're in a relatively good position to do that due to the specifics of what and how much we export to the US.

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Handle9

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#3375288 21-May-2025 15:58

SaltyNZ:

EDIT to add: and anyway, Trump and his idiot yesmen can get in the sea. Someone's got to stand up to them, and we're in a relatively good position to do that due to the specifics of what and how much we export to the US.

NZ mostly exports commodity products to the US. A 20% retaliatory tarrif would mean most of those products would get substituted.

NZ has zero leverage with the US so if it gets picked on there's nothing that it could do about it. Equally "standing up" to the US would have zero effect on Trump, there's nothing NZ has that he needs.

ezbee

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#3375393 21-May-2025 17:01

Yep, no point putting NZ in front of the Trump firing line.
We already like Australia years back said he was unfit to own a Casino, so don't jog his memory.

Even Winston Peters knows when to be diplomatic in front of more powerful.
He did manage to visit North Korea and come back alive ! :-)
The insults he saves for locals.

Just quietly pick out the smaller nations, or even larger ones like Japan.

Those in Trump firing line and seek better trade agreements as non Trumplican block 'without saying it in so many words'.
Our respectful approaches and talk of smaller nations that have to generally trade together vs large nations that call their own shots.

Many ways to phrase this without picking fights or directly saying. China does its in a different way but equally uses its power if it sees weakness.

Time is ripe to get some deals considered that might normally not be on the table ?

freitasm

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#3375395 21-May-2025 17:55

So much winning... "Government’s Regulatory Standards Bill to cost $20m per year"

Implementing the Regulatory Standards Bill will cost a minimum of $20 million per annum across an estimated 20 years, government officials estimate.
However, the Ministry for Regulation, the agency responsible for the bill, has been unable to estimate a monetary value for benefits the red-tape busting law might bring.
The absence of any cost-benefit analysis is paradoxical for legislation that is aimed at, among other things, illuminating as poor laws those which fail to provide benefits that outweigh drawbacks. The bill was introduced to Parliament on Monday. It sets principles for regulatory quality and good law-making by requiring that both proposed and existing laws be measured against its standard.

The provisions would not be binding, but rather aim at greater transparency; oversight would fall to the Ministry for Regulation and a new statutory board.

...

The review of existing legislation for consistency with the principles of the bill will cost an estimated $9.375m per annum. Officials expect that it would take at least 20 years to assess all of the roughly 1000 current pieces of primary legislation.

tdgeek

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#3375404 21-May-2025 19:30

freitasm:

So much winning... "Government’s Regulatory Standards Bill to cost $20m per year"

Implementing the Regulatory Standards Bill will cost a minimum of $20 million per annum across an estimated 20 years, government officials estimate.
However, the Ministry for Regulation, the agency responsible for the bill, has been unable to estimate a monetary value for benefits the red-tape busting law might bring.
The absence of any cost-benefit analysis is paradoxical for legislation that is aimed at, among other things, illuminating as poor laws those which fail to provide benefits that outweigh drawbacks. The bill was introduced to Parliament on Monday. It sets principles for regulatory quality and good law-making by requiring that both proposed and existing laws be measured against its standard.

The provisions would not be binding, but rather aim at greater transparency; oversight would fall to the Ministry for Regulation and a new statutory board.

...

The review of existing legislation for consistency with the principles of the bill will cost an estimated $9.375m per annum. Officials expect that it would take at least 20 years to assess all of the roughly 1000 current pieces of primary legislation.

You can copy/paste to the Trump thread if required...

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