MikeB4:

 

I dont see setting a date as a panic move.  

 

Without all the relevant information, sure it is.

networkn:

 

MikeB4:

 

I dont see setting a date as a panic move.  

 

 

Without all the relevant information, sure it is.

 

 

 

What information? climate change? .....

To go along with a targeted ban date for ICE the Government could impose a 20% levy on the sale of ICE vehicles in the period leading up to the ban to fund subsidies for EVs

Some good ideas in the above posts but I think people get stuck when they try to find ways to keep things the same in terms of personal convenience, expense, comfort, etc. In other words, how do we find a magic source of energy that doesn’t make things worse but still lets me have my air-conditioning and SUV?

During WWII, petrol was in short supply in most places because it had to go to the war effort (along with a lot of other things). Some people got around this by looking for alternatives – ethanol, steam power, even cars converted to run on wood. None of these alternatives worked as well as the good old ICE engine, so they were abandoned as soon as petrol became readily available again.

They didn’t work as well, but they did work after a fashion. So maybe to get through a transitional period we have to start thinking in different terms. Not what will let me do things the same as I have always done, but what will give me a less ideal but still acceptable alternative. I think at least part of the solution to this dilemma has to be a change in expectation and the way people think. We don’t have to go back to living in caves but maybe we do have to dial our standard of living back a little for the good of the planet.

A lot of people won’t like that so think of it as a war. A war in which rising seas and devastating storms and tropical diseases and encroaching deserts are the weapons of the enemy. During wartime everyone has to make sacrifices.

I don't see anyone here arguing aginst the idea that some form of sacrifice may be required or that they aren't prepared to have some. However, what I do see, is some hysterical "the roof is falling" type sentiment which is being used to wipe common sense from our planning. 

Basically, if it's seen to be "green" people will tick it off without due dilligence which is risky to say the least.

Pretty much universally, it's hard to open a paper/website or discussion without reading about some green iniative or another. I am not saying that's bad, I am saying that awareness of the impact we have on our environment is at an all time high and people don't need to be brow beaten or shamed into paying attention. You risk the same old thing of idea fatigue which has a greater negative impact in the long term. 

The reactions to green initiatives  are almost universally denial, anger, insult.

MikeB4:

 

The reactions to green initiatives  are almost universally denial, anger, insult.

 

That's not my experience. There was a few years ago.

What you might be confusing, is resistance to wild movements made by people "because it's green" without due diligence, planning and forethought. In that I support a backlash for the reasons I have already stated.

MikeB4:

 

To go along with a targeted ban date for ICE the Government could impose a 20% levy on the sale of ICE vehicles in the period leading up to the ban to fund subsidies for EVs

 

Honestly, I see this as being unnecessary.  Most automotive manufacturers have EV or PHEV offerings now (or at least are planning for them) and these are going to become increasingly more mainstream with a natural rate of adoption.

However, ICE is going to be a staple in many areas (mostly outside the realms of personal vehicles) for much, much longer because there isn't any practical alternative.  These include, Long-haul freight haulage, Forestry, Farming, Construction, Earthworks, Marine, Aviation, and many others.

EDIT:  Also asking the question - where is the extra electricity to power the EV fleet going to come from?

Source.

More hydro dams?

More Natural Gas?  Coal?

The vehicle itself is only one half of the equation.

MikeB4:

 

The reactions to green initiatives  are almost universally denial, anger, insult.

 

In the sectors I've worked in, green initiatives are well received when they are based on evidence and target solutions.

In those circumstances green initiative generally make sense beyond being green.

Greenies who are about problem not solutions (e.g. Greenpeace) are generally poorly received. 

MikeAqua:

 

MikeB4:

 

The reactions to green initiatives  are almost universally denial, anger, insult.

 

 

In the sectors I've worked in, green initiatives are well received when they are based on evidence and target solutions.

 

In those circumstances green initiative generally make sense beyond being green.

 

Greenies who are about problem not solutions (e.g. Greenpeace) are generally poorly received. 

 

That is put really well. I couldn't agree more.

MikeB4:

 

To go along with a targeted ban date for ICE the Government could impose a 20% levy on the sale of ICE vehicles in the period leading up to the ban to fund subsidies for EVs

 

The price doesn't really matter if the supply isn't there and/or if the tech doesn't deliver.  For example how are bulk goods getting trucked into towns without rail-roads.

No responsible govt would ban something in anticipation of suitable alternate technology being available.

6FIEND:

 

MikeB4:

 

To go along with a targeted ban date for ICE the Government could impose a 20% levy on the sale of ICE vehicles in the period leading up to the ban to fund subsidies for EVs

 

 

 

 

Honestly, I see this as being unnecessary.  Most automotive manufacturers have EV or PHEV offerings now (or at least are planning for them) and these are going to become increasingly more mainstream with a natural rate of adoption.

 

However, ICE is going to be a staple in many areas (mostly outside the reals of personal vehicles) for much, much longer because there isn't any practical alternative.  These include, Long-haul freight haulage, Forestry, Farming, Construction, Earthworks, Marine, Aviation, and many others.

 

I agree to a point however the more ICE vehicles that are removed from the environmet the sustainability of some increases. However I disagree that there are not alternatives for long haul freight, farming and construction and even marine.

MikeAqua:

 

MikeB4:

 

To go along with a targeted ban date for ICE the Government could impose a 20% levy on the sale of ICE vehicles in the period leading up to the ban to fund subsidies for EVs

 

 

The price doesn't really matter if the supply isn't there and/or if the tech doesn't deliver.  For example how are bulk goods getting trucked into towns without rail-roads.

 

No responsible govt would ban something in anticipation of suitable alternate technology being available.

 

if Governments set  deadlines on ICE production and sales you can guarantee that Ford, PSA, Toyota, Nissan, etc will quickly bring on replacements

MikeAqua:

No responsible govt would ban something in anticipation of suitable alternate technology being available.

JamesShaw:
Minister of Climate Change James Shaw says the announcement represents “the greatest economic opportunity in a generation.”

“It will create new jobs and new technology that our dependence on fossil fuels has held us back from for too long.”

6FIEND:

 

MikeB4:

 

To go along with a targeted ban date for ICE the Government could impose a 20% levy on the sale of ICE vehicles in the period leading up to the ban to fund subsidies for EVs

 

 

 

 

Honestly, I see this as being unnecessary.  Most automotive manufacturers have EV or PHEV offerings now (or at least are planning for them) and these are going to become increasingly more mainstream with a natural rate of adoption.

 

However, ICE is going to be a staple in many areas (mostly outside the realms of personal vehicles) for much, much longer because there isn't any practical alternative.  These include, Long-haul freight haulage, Forestry, Farming, Construction, Earthworks, Marine, Aviation, and many others.

 

EDIT:  Also asking the question - where is the extra electricity to power the EV fleet going to come from?

 

 

Source.

 

More hydro dams?

 

More Natural Gas?  Coal?

 

The vehicle itself is only one half of the equation.

 

Here is an idea, instead of building new power stations to meet the demand for EV energy the Government looks to providing homes with the means to produce their own energy. It would be interesting to compare the cost of a new Dam, Wind Farm, Geothermal station with the cost of grants to fund Solar power in homes.