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Fred99
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  #2077209 22-Aug-2018 08:24
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mm1352000:

 

Fred99: The South African government has begun the process of seizing land from owners in cases where the negotiation for compensation has stalled.

 

Leaving out what I highlighted makes a hell of a difference.  Our government can compulsorily acquire land through the Public Works Act, and disputes over valuation are normal.

 

Sure, true. In that farmer's position I would walk away from negotiations too if I was offered one tenth of what I thought the land was reasonably worth... and I would be very concerned when the constitution was changed to enable expropriation of the land for zero compensation.

 

 

That's "if" the constitution is changed - under which property rights are protected and expropriation without compensation specifically prohibited.  I expect if that was repealed/amended, then all hell would break loose. There will be a lot of money owed to banks - so the government wouldn't be stealing from farmers - they'd be stealing many billions from banks too, foreign investment would cease, there'd be a massive run on the currency, farm production would cease and people would starve. The farmers' loss would be tragic, but everything a complete disaster - with precedent - nobody wins. Countries commit economic suicide despite persuasive efforts for them not to.

 

Best I could find as to valuation method used is : value = (current use value + market value) divided by 2 minus historical acquisition benefits and state subsidies. Seems fair in principle - but I guess that's no guarantee that it would always be in practice. One tenth is a hell of a difference - so something's clearly not right - and it could be the reporting of the issue - not even what the allegedly aggrieved farmer is saying.




MikeAqua
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  #2077236 22-Aug-2018 09:13
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Fred99:

 

That's "if" the constitution is changed - under which property rights are protected and expropriation without compensation specifically prohibited.  I expect if that was repealed/amended, then all hell would break loose. There will be a lot of money owed to banks - so the government wouldn't be stealing from farmers - they'd be stealing many billions from banks too, foreign investment would cease, there'd be a massive run on the currency, farm production would cease and people would starve. The farmers' loss would be tragic, but everything a complete disaster - with precedent - nobody wins. Countries commit economic suicide despite persuasive efforts for them not to.

 

 

All of which happened just up the road under the leadership of one Robert Mugabe.  I am not comparing the president of SA to Mugabe. But a common factor is that he is trying to placate a similar constituency - those who are yet to share in the benefits of the end to apartheid.





Mike


Rikkitic
Awrrr
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  #2077267 22-Aug-2018 10:44
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I have read statements from the SA authorities that whatever measures may eventually be taken must not have a detrimental effect on the economy or food production or public welfare otherwise, so there is clearly awareness of the Zimbabwean example and a desire not to follow that. There is also public pressure to redress very real land confiscation grievances of the past. It is hard to know how this may ultimately work out, but it is a lot more than just blacks getting back at whites. There is a hell of a lot of historical injustice in South Africa and there is a hell hell hell lot more of it throughout history perpetrated by whites on blacks. Any injustice is wrong and past injustice should not be used as an excuse for contemporary injustice but I find it disingenuous in the extreme when certain people today try to argue that whites are somehow becoming an endangered minority, and then try to use examples like the land issue currently in flux in South Africa to somehow legitimise that. 

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 




kryptonjohn
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  #2077271 22-Aug-2018 11:04
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"I have read statements from the SA authorities..."

 

SA is rife with corruption to the highest levels (read about Jacob Zuma), so these authorities are even less trustworthy than your average politician.

 

Some interesting stuff here (no idea how accurate though): https://www.business-anti-corruption.com/country-profiles/south-africa/

 

In particular:

 

"However, the Promotion of Investment Act signed into law in December 2015 allows the government to expropriate property at a price lower than market value (ICS 2017)."

 

 

 

 


Fred99
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  #2081290 30-Aug-2018 11:25
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kryptonjohn:

 

Fred99:

 

An article in Al Jazeera:

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/south-africa-afriforum-trump-kiss-death-180828131030337.html

 

 

On the other hand:

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12116038

 

 

 

 

It would be much easier to evaluate Soper's claims if it wasn't being supported by such a loud screeching from hard right wing white nationalists and conspiracy theorists - convinced that there's a "white genocide".

 

It appears that he read an article in the UK Daily Mail and believed it.  Says it all.


 
 
 

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).
MikeAqua
7785 posts

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  #2081298 30-Aug-2018 11:46
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Fred99:

 

It would be much easier to evaluate Soper's claims if it wasn't being supported by such a loud screeching from hard right wing white nationalists and conspiracy theorists - convinced that there's a "white genocide".

 

 

It's hard to see a land-grab as an attempt at genocide.  It may be robbery accompanied by racially motivated violence, but that's far from genocide.

 

That said, what's happening in SA is highly concerning. 

 

We have transferred land and other assets in NZ to Maori.  It's mostly be done peaceably on a willing-seller basis.  having iwi with defined rohe for the crown to deal with made that relatively simple.  There could be something to learn from that for SAs.

 

Acquiring land or confiscating it from unwilling sellers and giving it to people to farm won't end well - for anyone.

 

 





Mike


kryptonjohn
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  #2081344 30-Aug-2018 13:02
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Fred99:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

Fred99:

 

An article in Al Jazeera:

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/south-africa-afriforum-trump-kiss-death-180828131030337.html

 

 

On the other hand:

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12116038

 

 

 

 

It would be much easier to evaluate Soper's claims if it wasn't being supported by such a loud screeching from hard right wing white nationalists and conspiracy theorists - convinced that there's a "white genocide".

 

It appears that he read an article in the UK Daily Mail and believed it.  Says it all.

 

 

Which part are you not believing - that Trump tweeted or that the South African government suspended implementing their land appropriation legislation?


Fred99
13684 posts

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  #2081416 30-Aug-2018 14:57
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kryptonjohn:

 

Which part are you not believing - that Trump tweeted or that the South African government suspended implementing their land appropriation legislation?

 

 

Connecting the two.

 

That's "fake news" - believe it or not.


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