Our new coalition government.

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885 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2108990 16-Oct-2018 16:57

networkn:

Plenty of tax already being taken, perhaps they could take it from the free for all the students got? :)

The cost of the free education policy tops out at $426m/year. I suspect you'll need to put several generations of students into debt to pay for that rail line.

networkn

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#2109554 17-Oct-2018 11:17

allio:

networkn:

Plenty of tax already being taken, perhaps they could take it from the free for all the students got? :)

The cost of the free education policy tops out at $426m/year. I suspect you'll need to put several generations of students into debt to pay for that rail line.

Err what? How much do you think said rail would cost?

allio

885 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2109596 17-Oct-2018 11:45

networkn:

Err what? How much do you think said rail would cost?

A second harbour crossing with rail has been costed at $5.8b, heavy rail to the airport has been costed at $3.1b. Factor in inevitable cost overruns and other general costs associated with such a massive extension to the network and I'll estimate $10-12b.

Reciprocity

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Master Geek
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#2109612 17-Oct-2018 12:00

allio:
networkn:

Err what? How much do you think said rail would cost?

A second harbour crossing with rail has been costed at $5.8b, heavy rail to the airport has been costed at $3.1b. Factor in inevitable cost overruns and other general costs associated with such a massive extension to the network and I'll estimate $10-12b.

Sounds like the perfect initiative to soak up the FY18 and FY19 surpluses ;-)
No need to put those poor students into debt afterall

bmt

574 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2109982 17-Oct-2018 19:08

Light rail "to the airport" is a misnomer and it stopped being referred to that a while ago, rather light rail "to Mangere". As has been posted above its not really about getting tourists to and from the airport. The Auckland transport policy has almost been lifted word for word from Greater Auckland and they never advocated for it to be anything other than what it is being built as now.

Aredwood:

@bmt The links you have posted compare trams to a heavy rail link from the airport to Puhunui. Which is completely different to what I was proposing - which is extending the existing heavy rail line at Onehunga, through Mangere, and to the airport.

As for an airport link not being needed. If so, just build the heavy rail line between Onehunga and Mangere. And omit the airport bit.

I cannot find any comparison between what I have proposed and trams. Why was a far longer heavy rail route used as a comparison option? Instead of a more direct route? This smells of politicians twisting things to get the outcome that they want.

https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2016/06/28/light-rail-preferred-to-airport/

Re the photo of Dominion Rd and how tight it is - how many of you Auckland residents drive to busy areas like Dominion Rd/Valley Rd or Dominion Rd/Balmoral Rd areas, and expect to find a park on Dominion Rd, and actually park on Dominion Rd? My point being, why are there parks there now and why would they need to be there in the future?

networkn:

How long do you think, using rail, it should take to get from Auckland CBD, to the Airport, should take?

If this was SIMPLY rail down Dominion Road, then potentially I'd agree, but it's primarily being proposed as light rail to the airport.

Only 4% of light rail passengers are forecast to be "passengers accessing the airport terminals". Just because the terminus is the airport doesn't mean it's all about the airport. The Gold Coast tram goes out to a university then turns around - is it the university tram? Nope.

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#2110489 18-Oct-2018 13:49

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/107940528/jacinda-ardern-names-prime-ministers-business-advisory-council-members

So lots of big names, none representing SMB's. /me shakes my head.

dejadeadnz

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#2110664 18-Oct-2018 20:27

What's your average small-medium NZ business owner going to offer, other than whinging about compliance costs and wanting to deprive workers of all their rights? Say what people will about corporates, in terms of being on the forefront in business for things like sustainability, living wage, and other matters of CSR, they are streets ahead of SMBs.

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#2110670 18-Oct-2018 20:37

Right right, because big corporates never complain about complaince costs (just taxation rates) or mistreat their staff.

Get real!

GV27

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#2110681 18-Oct-2018 21:07

dejadeadnz:

What's your average small-medium NZ business owner going to offer, other than whinging about compliance costs and wanting to deprive workers of all their rights? Say what people will about corporates, in terms of being on the forefront in business for things like sustainability, living wage, and other matters of CSR, they are streets ahead of SMBs.

So companies that can afford the feel good brand-happy rubbish around the edges are more important than the actual bulk of NZ business that employ people and give them the money they're expected to live off?

Maybe ask those SMEs on 90 day credit repayment terms enforced by large corporates how sustainable they feel their business is?

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#2110685 18-Oct-2018 21:13

GV27:

dejadeadnz:

What's your average small-medium NZ business owner going to offer, other than whinging about compliance costs and wanting to deprive workers of all their rights? Say what people will about corporates, in terms of being on the forefront in business for things like sustainability, living wage, and other matters of CSR, they are streets ahead of SMBs.

So companies that can afford the feel good brand-happy rubbish around the edges are more important than the actual bulk of NZ business that employ people and give them the money they're expected to live off?

Maybe ask those SMEs on 90 day credit repayment terms enforced by large corporates how sustainable they feel their business is?

Exactly. SMB's deserve to be represented and to have their concerns heard, even if that is around the fact that compliance costs really hurt, or if the fast speed at which the Government wants to increase Minimum wage has meant laying off people etc (Which is something I know is happening in a few small businesses I work with or know).

A SMB I know just lost his house and his lifes work when a large construction company went under.

dejadeadnz

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#2110689 18-Oct-2018 21:25

networkn:

A SMB I know just lost his house and his lifes work when a large construction company went under.

A business owner (who's presumably a majority shareholder in a limited liability company) whose personal life completely goes under solely because a major customer folds wasn't running his or her business very effectively. If you don't risk manage effectively then my personal sympathy factor = zero.

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#2110693 18-Oct-2018 21:40

dejadeadnz:

networkn:

A SMB I know just lost his house and his lifes work when a large construction company went under.

A business owner (who's presumably a majority shareholder in a limited liability company) whose personal life completely goes under solely because a major customer folds wasn't running his or her business very effectively. If you don't risk manage effectively then my personal sympathy factor = zero.

And your understanding of how these work in the construction industry is also about the same it would seem.

Perhaps you might consider brushing up on how many small and medium contractors are taken out every time a large construction company goes under and why that is.

dejadeadnz

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#2110697 18-Oct-2018 21:48

networkn:

And your understanding of how these work in the construction industry is also about the same it would seem.

Perhaps you might consider brushing up on how many small and medium contractors are taken out every time a large construction company goes under and why that is.

I review construction contracts almost weekly as part of my job for a listed company. The fact that the construction industry is seriously inefficient and commonly operates in ways that are risk-ignorant is well known. Merely because lots of people fail in an industry doesn't disprove the original point that I made. Networkn, perhaps try posting a little bit less and think more?

networkn

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#2110723 18-Oct-2018 23:11

In your rush to write pithy one liners you have decided to skip the point I was trying to make. Never mind.

Back to the original point;

The council that the Government setup was for business. It wasn't the "exclusively large business council". Given the number of small businesses, many who are trying to be innovative, do the right thing by their staff and also trying to make a living for them and their stakeholders, there are in this country, it's entirely reasonable that there be some representation even if it is to "whine about the cost of compliance".

Rikkitic

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#2112790 23-Oct-2018 14:22

Geekzone is a bubble as well as a microcosm. There has been a lot of ongoing commentary here about government stuff-ups and poor policy decisions so it is worth knowing what some other people think about this. I attach no particular significance one way or the other to these comments or how they were garnered, I just think they are interesting and worth reading. I certainly don't get the feeling that the government is likely to change anytime soon.

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