2019 road toll already in the triple digits. What will Jacinda do?

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Forums › Politics › 2019 road toll already in the triple digits. What will Jacinda do?

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#2209766 2-Apr-2019 20:28

Fred99:
shk292:

Sorry - NPR is number-plate recognition, I thought the term was used above. It's common in other countries and makes more effective policing of vehicle and driver compliance much easier.

I'm less sure about the wide demographic, and it would be very interesting to see an annual summary of serious accidents, their causes and contributory factors. I've never seen this but I have a hunch that sober, drug-free, seatbelt-restrained drivers in fully compliant, insured cars will form a very low portion of the statistics

I thought they'd trialed NPR in NZ a year or two ago. IIRC it may have been shelved over privacy concerns.

I share your hunch.

There's this system being put together:

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/safety/safety-resources/crash-analysis-system

After a (very) quick look at incomplete data, I'm no wiser.

Putting stats together when there are always going to be contributory causes - and probably multiple ones in each injury/fatality incident- and trying to allocate % causality etc for each of those many factors... Makes my head hurt thinking about it.

And this is exactly why these stats are pointless.

On paper you see 3 digits and go omg something must change.
What wants not really quantifiable is how many were related to something controllable or uncontrollable.

Leaves the gate open to make rash changes that really hold no actual improvement.

For arguments sake if we say 20% is speeding, 30% is substance abuse and rest is stupidity or freak accidents then you can sure go hey let's target that 20% it's still a big number.

But we have already done many things to reduce this. You start getting to the shrinking benefits to costs.
No doubt we will go down the path of those again simply because they are easy.

Personally I drive Auckland to Hamilton every weekend. I honestly don't often see people doing the dumb until it gets to the single lane areas where folk can't just pass and go on their merry way.
I'd say about 80% of people along there slightly speed. 110s(by GPS) is the normal even for large trucks but... It works. There is always room to pass the lorrie or whatever else!

But soon as I'm back in Auckland it's dart through the traffic! Must place race cars! No consideration. Wanna guess where I'm generally stuck in traffic due to accidents?

To be clear, I'm not saying speeding is OK. Simply questioning if it's actually what needs to be focused on.

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NZGamingIcon

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#2209871 2-Apr-2019 23:58

tdgeek:

NZGamingIcon:

How about a flat rate car tax to reduce the amount of cars on the road and reduce deaths. e.g. $5,000 per annum for every car owned. Easy to implement as it can be just an additional fee on top of car rego etc. Perhaps the rate could even depend on the vehicle risk rating - similar to the ACC service that NZTA uses. It would significantly reduce the amount of traffic which is good for the environment and the money can be used to pay for cycle lanes.

I don't get this. Too many cars. I don't see that, except at rush hour. If people want to drive in rush hour that's fine. Why take cars off the road that wont cause a death? You could ban all cars. You could also ban all violent movies and TV. Ban lots of things. Thats not really the answer.

I never said anything about banning. The money can be used for cycle lanes and to improve public transport. A lot of people drive cars because the current public transport isn't great, if government had the funds to improve public transport then there would be less cars on the road, resulting in less deaths, and less pollution etc.

GV27

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#2209891 3-Apr-2019 06:55

NZGamingIcon:

I never said anything about banning. The money can be used for cycle lanes and to improve public transport. A lot of people drive cars because the current public transport isn't great, if government had the funds to improve public transport then there would be less cars on the road, resulting in less deaths, and less pollution etc.

Unfortunately you've just driven huge swathes of the population into poverty by taking $5K from them just for having a car so they can get to work. So presumably those people aren't working anymore. In a way I guess that's a problem that solves itself.

But given how badly NZTA is fumbling Light Rail when 1) The Council want it, 2) The Govt want it and 3) The North West and Central corridors are packed solid every night for hours, I'm not hugely optimistic they could deliver the level of change required for people to be effectively fined for owning cars, regardless of whether they're driving them or not.

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#2209898 3-Apr-2019 07:19

NZGamingIcon:

I never said anything about banning. The money can be used for cycle lanes and to improve public transport. A lot of people drive cars because the current public transport isn't great, if government had the funds to improve public transport then there would be less cars on the road, resulting in less deaths, and less pollution etc.

Effectively that's what you have said

"Ambivalent NZ public as usual? Scared of regulation and 'freedoms' being taken away?

Does it makes you think a couple of weeks on from recent events? "

You are relating recent events in ChCh and the PM's ban to your road toll ideas. I'd personally find that insulting to the ChCh events and those affected.

A lot of people drive cars because there are benefits to that, that public transport can never overcome. Id really look elsewhere to save the world

freitasm

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#2209961 3-Apr-2019 08:48

NZGamingIcon:

How about a flat rate car tax to reduce the amount of cars on the road and reduce deaths. e.g. $5,000 per annum for every car owned. Easy to implement as it can be just an additional fee on top of car rego etc. Perhaps the rate could even depend on the vehicle risk rating - similar to the ACC service that NZTA uses. It would significantly reduce the amount of traffic which is good for the environment and the money can be used to pay for cycle lanes.

You realise $5000/year is a huge amount and some people actually use their cars for work purpose, not only recreational, right?

You won't solve road death by reducing the number of cars on the road. You might reduce the number of deaths but the relative number could stay the same - good one, you didn't solve the problem you solved the perception of the problem.

Meanwhile bad drivers are still bad drivers...

1eStar

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#2210432 3-Apr-2019 23:47

I'll leave my suggestions in bullet form:

•driver training, actual comprehensive hands on professional driver training. I'm talking skidpans, emergency braking, maybe even simulator stuff as part of licensing. Teach driving etiquette suitable for NZ roads.

•regular retesting both practical and theory when licence is renewed 10yearly.

•professional academic level review of land transport design guidelines for nz specific requirements. Instead of just blindly designing roads according to Austroads, e.g. get speed environment stuff sorted out and roundabout geometries sorted etc.

•put traffic police in unmarked cars and patrol poor driving habits (erratic driving, texting, seatbelts, using right hand lane incorrectly, inconsiderate driving etc)

And as for Jacinda, I'm sorry she's from the anti-car coalition. If you want your roads upgraded you've chosen the wrong government.

Aredwood

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#2210437 4-Apr-2019 00:24

freitasm:
NZGamingIcon:

How about a flat rate car tax to reduce the amount of cars on the road and reduce deaths. e.g. $5,000 per annum for every car owned. Easy to implement as it can be just an additional fee on top of car rego etc. Perhaps the rate could even depend on the vehicle risk rating - similar to the ACC service that NZTA uses. It would significantly reduce the amount of traffic which is good for the environment and the money can be used to pay for cycle lanes.

You realise $5000/year is a huge amount and some people actually use their cars for work purpose, not only recreational, right?

You won't solve road death by reducing the number of cars on the road. You might reduce the number of deaths but the relative number could stay the same - good one, you didn't solve the problem you solved the perception of the problem.

Meanwhile bad drivers are still bad drivers...

In addition to the above, a $5000 per year tax on owning a car. Would for lots of people, be a $5000 per year tax on owning an EV.

Lots of people own 1 car. That car does everything that they need it to. An equivalent EV that does everything that their ICE car does, either doesn't exist, or costs well over $100,000 But they can buy a used import Nissan Leaf, that can be used for 80% of their driving. Which means a (close to) 80% saving on yearly fuel costs. And an up to 80% reduction in carbon emissions. But if they buy that Nissan Leaf, they would now own 2 cars, which means paying $5000 per year in extra tax. Far cheaper just to keep spending approx $4000 per year on petrol for driving the V8 or that clapped out old ute, to work and back through rush hour traffic.

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freitasm

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#2210465 4-Apr-2019 06:53

I agree with the suggestion above about policing bad driving. Too much attention to speed and no action on idiot drivers.

gzt

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#2210520 4-Apr-2019 08:22

freitasm: I agree with the suggestion above about policing bad driving. Too much attention to speed and no action on idiot drivers.

There's an area I regularly pass through with a regular speed camera van. Same area has a thing with drivers crossing double yellow at speed. Adapting camera vans to capture this kind of driving could be useful.

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#2210530 4-Apr-2019 08:32

Is a driving test these days, still just about, showing over a few minutes that you can control the car driving from A to B, do a 3 point turn, park it, stay at speed limit, stop at a red light, etc? In my day it was just about proving that you can control the vehicle and obey the road code for that brief outing

gzt

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#2210531 4-Apr-2019 08:36

gzt: I read a stuff article this morning about a person who was killed in a side impact. I could not help wondering what year and side impact rating that car was. Related to that do we really want to keep importing stuff with low safety rating when better is available?

Related to that is collision avoidance/mitigation. It won't be long before that is a required standard on new cars. If that tech was present in this particular collision it may have significantly mitigated the accident.

Wellingtondave: 2019 road toll already in the triple digits. What will Jacinda do?

I'm not sure it's the right time for this in NZ. Its likely to be on the long term radar. Maybe there are some vehicles where it is more useful than others. Analysis of stats is required.

shk292

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#2210534 4-Apr-2019 08:46

An interesting piece on RNZ yesterday including an interview with the Dog & Lemon guy (who can be a bit weird a times admittedly). In the context of stats that a high % of road deaths are people without seatbelts, he raised the suggestion of impounding cars in this instance - partly because these sort of people are well accustomed to ignoring advice, warnings and fines.

I quite like this - 1st offence of unrestrained driver or passengers, lose your car for a week, on the spot, no excuses. 2nd time it's a month. 3rd time it's crushed.

tdgeek

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#2210539 4-Apr-2019 08:53

shk292:

An interesting piece on RNZ yesterday including an interview with the Dog & Lemon guy (who can be a bit weird a times admittedly). In the context of stats that a high % of road deaths are people without seatbelts, he raised the suggestion of impounding cars in this instance - partly because these sort of people are well accustomed to ignoring advice, warnings and fines.

I quite like this - 1st offence of unrestrained driver or passengers, lose your car for a week, on the spot, no excuses. 2nd time it's a month. 3rd time it's crushed.

I like that approach, but I'd be easy for first offenders, as I don't want to be excessive on an innocent mistake and punish a driver who is generally doing what we want, being safe and driving safe. But after that punishment needs to be exponential, as there is no excuse. No crushing though, there are worthy charities out there that can use those car proceeds

Rikkitic

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#2210582 4-Apr-2019 10:08

There certainly are some incompetent drivers on the roads but I suspect (no stats at hand) that bad attitudes also account for a lot. Yesterday I slowed for a parking space in town and immediately had two different drivers start blasting me with their horns and shaking their fists. The road is a busy one but it only has a single lane and you can't park along it without blocking traffic. It is not like there is some place to pull off until the traffic goes by. So everyone has to wait for 30 seconds. So what? Something weird happens to people when they get behind the wheel and they feel filled with a sense of power and entitlement. A little tolerance and understanding, not to mention a chill pill, would help a lot.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Varkk

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#2210609 4-Apr-2019 10:45

1eStar: I'll leave my suggestions in bullet form:

•driver training, actual comprehensive hands on professional driver training. I'm talking skidpans, emergency braking, maybe even simulator stuff as part of licensing. Teach driving etiquette suitable for NZ roads.

•regular retesting both practical and theory when licence is renewed 10yearly.

•professional academic level review of land transport design guidelines for nz specific requirements. Instead of just blindly designing roads according to Austroads, e.g. get speed environment stuff sorted out and roundabout geometries sorted etc.

•put traffic police in unmarked cars and patrol poor driving habits (erratic driving, texting, seatbelts, using right hand lane incorrectly, inconsiderate driving etc)

And as for Jacinda, I'm sorry she's from the anti-car coalition. If you want your roads upgraded you've chosen the wrong government.

How about another one of improving public transport, trains and buses etc. Less traffic on the road, less drivers less chance for individual accidents.

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