Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

1 | ... | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | ... | 187

2031 posts

Uber Geek

#3172191 15-Dec-2023 20:55

SaltyNZ:

[

Does your SO send you to the dog house when you spend a huge amount of time and effort scoping out a project so there aren't any surprises once you are ready to start it? Because in your analogy, that's what happens. Not that I disagree with your assessment of governance in this specific case, but in general.

If I've committed to buying the vehicle based on DYOR and the architect, who has to be paid for redesigning the garage, says that the only way to do this is to buy the next door property? I cant imagine the time in the dog house. Probably banned from buying cars for life. And rightly so.

But I'm sure my SO isnt so stupid as to let it get so far. I'm sure my kids could work out how dumb it'd be to spend more on fixing the garage than the car itself.

The board should be sacked. In its entirety. No excuses.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3172226 16-Dec-2023 08:10

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/12/prime-minister-christopher-luxon-unveils-coromandel-s-new-gold-plated-taparahi-bridge-on-state-highway-25a.html

Luxon praises this new bridge, we should do more like this. Well done Chris, king of infrastructure....

SaltyNZ

8225 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3172232 16-Dec-2023 09:11

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said the process for building and consenting the Taparahi Bridge could be a blueprint for other highways.

The process you're going to repeal in your 100-day plan? Sucks to be other highways then.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

quickymart

13932 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#3172235 16-Dec-2023 09:19

Hang on, wasn't this bridge started under Labour, who - or so I read on here - did absolutely nothing?

ockel

2031 posts

Uber Geek

#3172240 16-Dec-2023 09:32

quickymart:

Hang on, wasn't this bridge started under Labour, who - or so I read on here - did absolutely nothing?

Just like the Waterview Tunnel, Holiday Highway, Transmission Gully, the Western Ring/SH1 connection etc it doesnt matter who started it but the Govt of the day will claim it and applaud it.

I was staggered to hear the project lead saying that it was completed under time and under budget because crews and suppliers worked 24/7 to complete it but that such effort was unsustainable. Why? If you price and scope a project for 24/7 work (or longer than the 8/5 piecemeal that currently occurs) and staff it with shiftworkers than get recompensed appropriately why cant accelerated builds occur? Its it better to spend more money to start than have delays and cost overruns due to mismatched timing?

I have a cousin in construction and speed it which he implements liquidating damages for delays by subbies and suppliers is dazzling. And they only drag the chain once in a project.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3172249 16-Dec-2023 09:58

quickymart:

Hang on, wasn't this bridge started under Labour, who - or so I read on here - did absolutely nothing?

Yep. Not that he is taking credit, he isn't. But as and when suitable, will quietly slide in and smile. Hope the land infrastructure goes better than the sea version.

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3172251 16-Dec-2023 10:04

ockel:

I was staggered to hear the project lead saying that it was completed under time and under budget because crews and suppliers worked 24/7 to complete it but that such effort was unsustainable. Why? If you price and scope a project for 24/7 work (or longer than the 8/5 piecemeal that currently occurs) and staff it with shiftworkers than get recompensed appropriately why cant accelerated builds occur? Its it better to spend more money to start than have delays and cost overruns due to mismatched timing?

I have a cousin in construction and speed it which he implements liquidating damages for delays by subbies and suppliers is dazzling. And they only drag the chain once in a project.

100% agree with that. 24/7 means they are effectively employing 3 x more people, good for employment. More probably given weekend work. Some employees may enjoy more hours and T1.5 etc. But the project will be completed in 1/3 the time, or less.

No way would I or could I work 24/7, but me and 2 others can easily do 3 days work in one day.

Sharesies kids

Free kids accounts - trade shares and funds (NZ, US) with Sharesies (affiliate link).

ockel

2031 posts

Uber Geek

#3172254 16-Dec-2023 10:12

tdgeek:

ockel:

I was staggered to hear the project lead saying that it was completed under time and under budget because crews and suppliers worked 24/7 to complete it but that such effort was unsustainable. Why? If you price and scope a project for 24/7 work (or longer than the 8/5 piecemeal that currently occurs) and staff it with shiftworkers than get recompensed appropriately why cant accelerated builds occur? Its it better to spend more money to start than have delays and cost overruns due to mismatched timing?

I have a cousin in construction and speed it which he implements liquidating damages for delays by subbies and suppliers is dazzling. And they only drag the chain once in a project.

100% agree with that. 24/7 means they are effectively employing 3 x more people, good for employment. More probably given weekend work. Some employees may enjoy more hours and T1.5 etc. But the project will be completed in 1/3 the time, or less.

No way would I or could I work 24/7, but me and 2 others can easily do 3 days work in one day.

Nobody on that project would have worked 24h or possibly even 7d. But multiple teams working 10/4 with 3 days rostered off, other professions do it without any issue.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

gzt

17111 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3172256 16-Dec-2023 10:22

Imo many of these comments are on the wrong track. I'd guess the "unsustainable" comment probably comes from temporarily taking people off other projects for this one, some critical people doing near double shifts or worse in some phases.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79263 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#3172259 16-Dec-2023 10:41

Also showing some people ignore or doesn't know about The Mythical Man-month, based on Brook's Law.

Adding more people to a highly divisible task, such as cleaning rooms in a hotel, decreases the overall task duration (up to the point where additional workers get in each other's way). However, other tasks including many specialties in software projects are less divisible; Brooks points out this limited divisibility with another example: while it takes one woman nine months to make one baby, "nine women can't make a baby in one month".

The point is that there are things that can be sub-divided - for example, steel manufacturing while another team is building the bridge, while another team is building the on-ramps.

But getting the steel beams together on a frame is different, and there are only a limited number of ways one can be connected to another, and adding more people than the ideal will not change it. You can't attach a steel beam to thin air. It needs a previous structure to attach to.

Multiple teams can keep the work going around the clock, but there will be the need for communication between teams at handover.

This means productivity is not linear. Adding two more teams won't produce three times the output. The teams need downtime to coordinate between them. So the output might end up being twice instead of three times. So, three teams won't get three times the result but will still be three times the cost, resulting in a slightly higher price for the final product.

But he ran an airline, he would know it.

ockel

2031 posts

Uber Geek

#3172314 16-Dec-2023 11:44

freitasm:

Also showing some people ignore or doesn't know about The Mythical Man-month, based on Brook's Law.

The point is that there are things that can be sub-divided - for example, steel manufacturing while another team is building the bridge, while another team is building the on-ramps.

But getting the steel beams together on a frame is different, and there are only a limited number of ways one can be connected to another, and adding more people than the ideal will not change it. You can't attach a steel beam to thin air. It needs a previous structure to attach to.

Multiple teams can keep the work going around the clock, but there will be the need for communication between teams at handover.

This means productivity is not linear. Adding two more teams won't produce three times the output. The teams need downtime to coordinate between them. So the output might end up being twice instead of three times. So, three teams won't get three times the result but will still be three times the cost, resulting in a slightly higher price for the final product.

But he ran an airline, he would know it.

And yet the project had an accelerated timetable, can in under budget and ahead of schedule. Productivity may not be linear and everyone knows there are bottlenecks associated with projects (that can be managed by good people) however it shows that there are ways other than the poor infrastructure (and construction) productivity that NZ has had for decades.

One would hope that within Ministries and within those parties tendering for projects that there is some intellectual horsepower rather than a micromanaging PM who ran an airline. But if you want to give credit to him for finishing this infrastructure under budget and ahead of schedule then all the power to you. I'd like to applaud the people on the ground that did the project management, its going to make Christmas holidays in the Coromandel much better for all the Aucklanders than own their multiple baches on the Peninsula.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3172324 16-Dec-2023 12:29

ockel:

Nobody on that project would have worked 24h or possibly even 7d. But multiple teams working 10/4 with 3 days rostered off, other professions do it without any issue.

I didnt say that

"24/7 means they are effectively employing 3 x more people"

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79263 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#3172326 16-Dec-2023 12:33

ockel:

freitasm:

Also showing some people ignore or doesn't know about The Mythical Man-month, based on Brook's Law.

The point is that there are things that can be sub-divided - for example, steel manufacturing while another team is building the bridge, while another team is building the on-ramps.

But getting the steel beams together on a frame is different, and there are only a limited number of ways one can be connected to another, and adding more people than the ideal will not change it. You can't attach a steel beam to thin air. It needs a previous structure to attach to.

Multiple teams can keep the work going around the clock, but there will be the need for communication between teams at handover.

This means productivity is not linear. Adding two more teams won't produce three times the output. The teams need downtime to coordinate between them. So the output might end up being twice instead of three times. So, three teams won't get three times the result but will still be three times the cost, resulting in a slightly higher price for the final product.

But he ran an airline, he would know it.

And yet the project had an accelerated timetable, can in under budget and ahead of schedule. Productivity may not be linear and everyone knows there are bottlenecks associated with projects (that can be managed by good people) however it shows that there are ways other than the poor infrastructure (and construction) productivity that NZ has had for decades.

One would hope that within Ministries and within those parties tendering for projects that there is some intellectual horsepower rather than a micromanaging PM who ran an airline. But if you want to give credit to him for finishing this infrastructure under budget and ahead of schedule then all the power to you. I'd like to applaud the people on the ground that did the project management, its going to make Christmas holidays in the Coromandel much better for all the Aucklanders than own their multiple baches on the Peninsula.

I'd argue that the original project was overestimated. We won't know either way because we don't know the details of the initial estimation, only the project outcomes.

evilengineer

466 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3172887 18-Dec-2023 08:52

freitasm:

I'd argue that the original project was overestimated. We won't know either way because we don't know the details of the initial estimation, only the project outcomes.

Any procurement system in the construction industry will get gamed.

The traditional approach is to price a job low to win the work and then start claiming extras and variations (with a much fatter margin) from day one, which may partly explain some "blow outs".

In a previous life I've been involved in "partnering" type contracts in the UK where the contractor is picked from a pre-approved pool and awarded a project. The work is then priced in an "open book" cost + agreed margin fashion before commencement and any subsequent savings or overruns are shared 50-50 between the contractor and client in a pain/gain arrangement.

This can have the perverse effect of encouraging the contractor to submit a high price with plenty of fat that can be trimmed because they know they'll be in line for 50% of the "savings".

In this particular instance it could well be that the contractor priced the job at the eyewatering end of the scale because they knew the government couldn't really say no and then found it hard to spend it all.

Who knows?

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79263 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#3172904 18-Dec-2023 09:23

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon under fire for using public funds to learn te reo Māori - NZ Herald

Ah, the political right, what's good for me is not good for you, bootstrap and all that.

Taxpayers have paid for Prime Minister Christopher Luxon’s own Māori language classes, even as he criticised public servants for bonuses for its use.

”People are completely free to learn for themselves,” he said.”That’s what happens out there in the real world, in corporate life, or any other community life across New Zealand.

”I’ve got a number of MPs, for example, that have made a big effort to learn te reo ... they’ve driven that learning themselves because they want to do it.

”In the real world outside of Wellington and outside the bubble of MPs, people who want to learn te reo or want to learn any other education actually pay for it themselves.”

However, Luxon did not follow his own advice. After repeated requests, the Prime Minister’s office confirmed taxpayers paid for Luxon’s own classes using a budget offered to the leader of the Opposition.

1 | ... | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | ... | 187