Our new coalition government.

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Awrrr
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#2243742 23-May-2019 13:47

networkn:

I also see that striking is all the rage now, KFC staff were doing it and heard about someone else I can't quite recall this AM.

Gee, that must be rough. Going a whole weekend without fa(s)t food. I thought you were a gourmand?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#2243744 23-May-2019 13:49

Rikkitic:

networkn:

I wonder how the cheerleading squad is going to spin another broken promise?

You forgot to include these comments:

National had no debt target in 2017. Tax cuts came first.

And meeting a temporary 2020-2023 debt target by ramping up immigration led growth leads to problems down the line in infrastructure supply and unaffordable housing. There was a lot of low quality policy in this area 2008-2017.

Bit rich from National after they increased debt from about 65 billion to over 100 billion from borrowing when in government.

national borrowed close to 60 billion in their last stint so wake me when we get there

What a cheek Amy Adams has in calling out the government on borrowing - she was part of the National government that not only borrowed to make the books look good but also sold off the Nations silver.

Yes, there are also plenty in the other direction. Just pointing out that you can make anything look like anything if you want to.

Well put. No cheerleading, just correcting misleading posts.

networkn

Networkn
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#2243745 23-May-2019 13:50

I'll check those numbers, but at first glance, they don't look right.

But as you stated, National didn't make a song and dance about fiscal responsibility and not borrowing beyond 20% which now looks like it's going to be more fantasy.

Nations Silver? LOL.

networkn

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#2243746 23-May-2019 13:51

tdgeek:

Well put. No cheerleading, just correcting misleading posts.

Pfft.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#2243747 23-May-2019 13:56

networkn:

Pfft.

sore loser.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#2243748 23-May-2019 13:57

networkn:

tdgeek:

Well put. No cheerleading, just correcting misleading posts.

Pfft.

Pretty much covers it. There were no "gee" and no "wow", so until the cheerleading dig arrived, it was a good post, stuff to discuss. You may be wrong you may be right, doesn't matter. But when it invariably gets reduced to low quality digs instead of active discussion, it loses context and maturity. Maybe that's how politics threads go? Don't know. Others seem ok.

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networkn

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#2243750 23-May-2019 14:01

Rikkitic:

networkn:

I also see that striking is all the rage now, KFC staff were doing it and heard about someone else I can't quite recall this AM.

Gee, that must be rough. Going a whole weekend without fa(s)t food. I thought you were a gourmand?

Whooosh! (BTW, in case you weren't aware, that was the sound of the point sailing right over your head).

For the record, since it seems to be impossible for you to understand, it's possible to be one thing and another as well, even Joel Joël Robuchon ate take aways, must invalide his title as the best chef in the world.

tdgeek

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#2243752 23-May-2019 14:05

networkn:

Rikkitic:

networkn:

I also see that striking is all the rage now, KFC staff were doing it and heard about someone else I can't quite recall this AM.

Gee, that must be rough. Going a whole weekend without fa(s)t food. I thought you were a gourmand?

Whooosh! (BTW, in case you weren't aware, that was the sound of the point sailing right over your head).

C'mon man.

networkn

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#2243753 23-May-2019 14:05

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Pfft.

sore loser.

So are you refuting

a) that the Government made a big deal about keeping borrowing to 20%

b) that the Government is now indicating it will borrow beyond that?

networkn

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#2243756 23-May-2019 14:07

tdgeek:

C'mon man.

Wait a second, your issue is THAT comment, without a similar comment at Rikki for taking yet another personal dig at me, whilst completely ignoring (Deliberately most likely) the point that was obviously being made?

Sore loser is better? More reasoned and balanced and fair? Right?!

tdgeek

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#2243765 23-May-2019 14:16

networkn:

tdgeek:

C'mon man.

Wait a second, your issue is THAT comment, without a similar comment at Rikki for taking yet another personal dig at me, whilst completely ignoring (Deliberately most likely) the point that was obviously being made?

Sore loser is better? More reasoned and balanced and fair? Right?!

You started it. As you always do with your jabs. Could others resist fighting back. Yes they could. If everyone's posts were adult, there would be no issue. And these types of personal issues usually seem to start with you. Others are just as passionate, they don't behave like that. IMHO

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GV27

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#2243780 23-May-2019 14:26

Ah yes, the grab-bag of opposition classics from 2008 - 2016. Who can forget 'selling the family silver (even though less than 50% of SOEs)', or my personal favourite 'debt blowout (feat. zero acknowledgement of two major unprecedented national disasters)'.

Plus, if you play it backwards, there's a Stephen Joyce bonus track about how Labour can't possibly deliver all the fantastical things they campaigned on without breaching the Fiscal Responsibility rules.

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#2243791 23-May-2019 14:37

GV27:

Ah yes, the grab-bag of opposition classics from 2008 - 2016. Who can forget 'selling the family silver (even though less than 50% of SOEs)', or my personal favourite 'debt blowout (feat. zero acknowledgement of two major unprecedented national disasters)'.

Plus, if you play it backwards, there's a Stephen Joyce bonus track about how Labour can't possibly deliver all the fantastical things they campaigned on without breaching the Fiscal Responsibility rules.

I don't recall anyone denying the EQ's. You need to exclude the EQC fund, they are built up reserves. I recall JK stating after Feb that there is plenty in EQC. You also need to exclude insurance payouts from insurance companies. Yes, there were other costs (which is why my rates have doubled) that have affected Govt coffers. Or affected local Govt coffers and rates.But you cannot dump ALL of the EQ effects as the ultimate excuse.

GV27

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#2243799 23-May-2019 15:01

tdgeek:

GV27:

Ah yes, the grab-bag of opposition classics from 2008 - 2016. Who can forget 'selling the family silver (even though less than 50% of SOEs)', or my personal favourite 'debt blowout (feat. zero acknowledgement of two major unprecedented national disasters)'.

Plus, if you play it backwards, there's a Stephen Joyce bonus track about how Labour can't possibly deliver all the fantastical things they campaigned on without breaching the Fiscal Responsibility rules.

I don't recall anyone denying the EQ's. You need to exclude the EQC fund, they are built up reserves. I recall JK stating after Feb that there is plenty in EQC. You also need to exclude insurance payouts from insurance companies. Yes, there were other costs (which is why my rates have doubled) that have affected Govt coffers. Or affected local Govt coffers and rates.But you cannot dump ALL of the EQ effects as the ultimate excuse.

...and you can't really bring up a 'debt blowout' without mentioning the two massive natural disasters. EQC, to the best of my knowledge, is basically stuffed. And the scary thing is they still pinched pennies on the rebuild and Wellington is now almost uninusrable.

There's more to a 'rebuild' the physical cost of reinstating the assets; between the lost regional economic output, bailing out insurers, etc. There's lot of legitimate things to bag National about, but the amount of debt they took out isn't one of them.

Right or wrong, Labour is vulnerable on the debt issue having spent so much and made so little progress with their campaign promises. Whether this means they'll double down on delivery or the promises is the bit that will really be the clincher about whether this is a good idea or not.

If they borrow heavily at historically low rates to fund infrastructure that will make everyone richer in the long run, that's a good thing.

If they tip a whole bunch of stuff into vote-buying political ass-grabbery like the PGF then they deserve to be back on the opposition benches.

tdgeek

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#2243844 23-May-2019 15:24

Is the debt they blew out all covered by the EQ's? Yes, EQC is now stuffed, they won't provide a buffer for more disasters for a long time. Can all of the past debt, plus the underspending all be blamed on the EQ's?

This Govt has set a debt repayment basis. After 5 years, IIRC that expires, but thats being treated as a failure? In case they borrow after that? All Govts can borrow. Or does the fiscal responsibility mean they cannot ever borrow? No.

The Govt had a budget. That involved spending, and a modest surplus. Lets see how this budget targets. If they in future, plan to borrow and borrow big, then as long as its not to buy the groceries (as someone suggested to top up health spending) but to pay for infrastructure that we will have to pay for anyway, so why not have it sooner? And reduce the time that we have to work around transport issues. BUT, we already have low unemployment, so can we build sooner? Not sure. There is a GFC risk, more types of sub prime risks are still there overseas. and even though our banking sector is not entrenched on overseas banking systems, there is an effect. If we had highish unemployment, borrowing for infratstructure would almost be a no brainer. Im not sure if we would benefit as much if we had to buy in construction workers from overseas and send the funds back overseas. But with interest costs low, bringing forward asset building makes a lot of sense

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