I think it's official - NZ is now two countries...

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Geektastic

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#242374 24-Oct-2018 22:42

It has in the last year or so begun to feel as though there is Auckland, and then the rest.

Vast sums of money are announced for this and that in Auckland whilst other places muddle along. Of course, I understand that there are reasons for much of that but you know what they say - perception is reality.

Then I saw this in the Herald:

"drivers in the regions already feel they are subsidising Auckland's regional fuel tax, with good reason."

and I thought to myself that we now have "Auckland" and "the regions" in the same way that the UK has motorway signs that read "The North".

So if you're not in Auckland, you're "just in the regions" now.

I've been here a wee while - heading for 15 years soon - and whilst Auckland always felt like a thing, the last year or two it has really begun to stand out as a rather obvious stand-alone thing.

At least, it seems so to me.

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#2113550 24-Oct-2018 23:38

I don't agree with the premise. Yes, petrol is still cheaper in Auckland than it is south of Levin, but it has always been that way due to the Gull / Waitomo effect. Thankfully Gull and Waitomo are opening up shops in the capital, so that should see competition in selected suburbs down there. Even other Auckland issues (e.g. house prices) have now flowed out to other parts of the country.

pdh

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#2113551 24-Oct-2018 23:41

> perception is reality

Well, I'd agree that increasingly that is what people perceive reality to be....

It used to be called 'wishful thinking'.

I prefer Philip Dick's take on reality:

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Auckland's our big fish in our small pond.
Modern media can illuminate (and exaggerate) all the good and bad that comes of that.
Two thirds of the country has decided _not_ to move to Auckland.
I can live with that.

But the litany of complaint about the hinterland supporting the city - vs the city subsidizing the hinterland - would take a very smart economist to adjudicate. And then no-one would believe the answer.

elpenguino

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#2113552 24-Oct-2018 23:41

It is the principal city in what is a small country.

It's become more and more the focus of things as various organisations moved their operations there over the last few decades.

I've been there and other big cities - I'm happy to leave them to it.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Handle9

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#2113564 25-Oct-2018 06:07

You regional people are so cute worrying about Auckland. It's ok, Auckland doesn't worry about you.

Dingbatt

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#2113582 25-Oct-2018 08:16

When I read the title of this thread, I thought it was going to be about the have and have-nots. But there's plenty of threads covering that already.

Having just come back from a short stay in Oz, I believe Auckland and NZ is no different from Melbourne and Victoria, Sydney and New South Wales, or Brisbane/Gold Coast and Queensland.

Personally, if my job wasn't in Auckland, neither would I be. But then again I was sitting to someone that works for Toyota (HQ) in Palmerston North and their comment was similar, so employment is the big driver.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

MikeB4

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#2113590 25-Oct-2018 08:39

Wellington is the best. Best air, best coffee, best harbour, best coffee, best scenery, best coffee, best food, best coffee............. best everything.

eph

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#2113593 25-Oct-2018 08:44

MikeB4:

Wellington is the best. Best air, best coffee, best harbour, best coffee, best scenery, best coffee, best food, best coffee............. best everything.

Don't forget the best wind and quakes! :)

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

MikeB4

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#2113597 25-Oct-2018 08:50

eph:

MikeB4:

Wellington is the best. Best air, best coffee, best harbour, best coffee, best scenery, best coffee, best food, best coffee............. best everything.

Don't forget the best wind and quakes! :)

Nah Hamner has better wind and the South Island sadly beats our quakes. We do have the Beehive though so we win with BS as well. Utiku does beat us for Bus service dammit.

Fred99

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#2113600 25-Oct-2018 08:53

Dingbatt:

Having just come back from a short stay in Oz, I believe Auckland and NZ is no different from Melbourne and Victoria, Sydney and New South Wales, or Brisbane/Gold Coast and Queensland.

As I understand it, at the start of the 20th century, Australia was already one of the most urbanised nations, Sydney already had a population of a million.

NZ population internal migration / concentration was about half a century behind this - probably because farms were much smaller and productive per hectare - so more farmers per capita, with the associated industries, small towns were thriving when I grew up in rural NZ in the 1960s. That was probably about the time where population drift began to concentrate population in the large cities - with associated northward population drift. It was definitely recognised as an issue/problem by the early '70s, but that was also a time where under protectionism, factory workers were needed - immigration from the Pacific Islands was ramped up to supply the demand for labour.

Auckland Mayor (Robinson) was a tireless advocate for building a "rapid rail" system.

I read some of the news commentary now which suggests that the infrastructure issues that Auckland has been facing over recent times is something that "snuck up on us due to sudden change". But it's been recognised as a pending problem for >50 years.

MikeB4

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#2113607 25-Oct-2018 09:10

Fred99:

Dingbatt:

Having just come back from a short stay in Oz, I believe Auckland and NZ is no different from Melbourne and Victoria, Sydney and New South Wales, or Brisbane/Gold Coast and Queensland.

As I understand it, at the start of the 20th century, Australia was already one of the most urbanised nations, Sydney already had a population of a million.

NZ population internal migration / concentration was about half a century behind this - probably because farms were much smaller and productive per hectare - so more farmers per capita, with the associated industries, small towns were thriving when I grew up in rural NZ in the 1960s. That was probably about the time where population drift began to concentrate population in the large cities - with associated northward population drift. It was definitely recognised as an issue/problem by the early '70s, but that was also a time where under protectionism, factory workers were needed - immigration from the Pacific Islands was ramped up to supply the demand for labour.

Auckland Mayor (Robinson) was a tireless advocate for building a "rapid rail" system.

I read some of the news commentary now which suggests that the infrastructure issues that Auckland has been facing over recent times is something that "snuck up on us due to sudden change". But it's been recognised as a pending problem for >50 years.

Sir Dove-Myer Robinson was mocked for his belief in a rapid rail system for Auckland, he was right.

Bluntj

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#2113610 25-Oct-2018 09:20

Auckland over the last 2 decades has done nothing to help itself and do deserve the perception that is given them by the rest of the country.

They sit back and moan continually about everything and expect the NZ taxpayer to pay for it all. Most cities manage their own affairs with help sometimes from central government. Auckland does squat with their massive rate take and expect all of NZ to fix it after decades of inaction and spending on what exactly?

Got to laugh at their continual moaning about petrol prices and how their world is going to end when they still pay cheaper prices than the rest of NZ.

Clearly I have over reacted a little, but the gist is about right.

MikeB4

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#2113621 25-Oct-2018 09:42

Bluntj:

Auckland over the last 2 decades has done nothing to help itself and do deserve the perception that is given them by the rest of the country.

They sit back and moan continually about everything and expect the NZ taxpayer to pay for it all. Most cities manage their own affairs with help sometimes from central government. Auckland does squat with their massive rate take and expect all of NZ to fix it after decades of inaction and spending on what exactly?

Got to laugh at their continual moaning about petrol prices and how their world is going to end when they still pay cheaper prices than the rest of NZ.

Clearly I have over reacted a little, but the gist is about right.

Except Auckland is not seperate from New Zealand, the problems faced by Auckland are problems faced by New Zealand

Fred99

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#2113635 25-Oct-2018 10:13

MikeB4:

Sir Dove-Myer Robinson was mocked for his belief in a rapid rail system for Auckland, he was right.

I'd love to know - but will never find out - how much lobbying by people/industries with vested financial interest in the dormitory suburb / private car commuter model went on, and how much that influenced public opinion against Dove-Myer Robinson's ideas.

allio

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#2114288 26-Oct-2018 10:23

https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2015/10/14/is-auckland-costing-new-zealand-too-much/

Slightly outdated, and you can argue about the neutrality of the source, but the figures certainly suggest that if anything Auckland is subsidising the rest of the country, not the other way around.

With regard to the petrol tax thing - is the theory that petrol stations in Auckland haven't passed on the full amount of the tax to consumers, and have instead maintained their profit margins by charging the rest of the country more? If so, I have a number of problems with it...

Lastly - with the important exception of housing, stuff is always more expensive and less available outside the big centres. Urban intensification enables these economies of scale and cost savings. Outside Auckland, you pay a bit more for petrol, you don't have many public transport options and you don't get UFB, but you also don't have to pay $800,000 for a crappy 2 bedroom fibro house. It's a choice that everybody is free to make depending on what is most important to them.

Fred99

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#2114358 26-Oct-2018 11:47

allio:

Slightly outdated, and you can argue about the neutrality of the source, but the figures certainly suggest that if anything Auckland is subsidising the rest of the country, not the other way around.

I wouldn't argue about the neutrality of the source, more just argue the utter futility of any debate - it's like asking if your right arm is subsidising your left arm.

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