NZ China Relationship

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Bluntj

556 posts

Ultimate Geek

#245659 15-Feb-2019 09:44

I am curious as to what people think as this very important relationship seems to be heading South.

My take on it is that we joined in with our allies to stop Huawei getting 5G rollout in this country that was probably dictated to by the USA. To me this seems a bit rich when the USA refuses to give us a free trade agreement and refused to give us an exemption to the steel and aluminium tarrffs that Trump initiated.

With our trade and tourism at record highs with China, yet quite low with USA, did our politicians get it wrong? What does the USA do for us these days?

Or maybe our media is just hyping this up and it has little substance?

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Ultimate Geek

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#2180675 15-Feb-2019 10:12

The issue with Huawei being disqualified from supplying 5G network hardware was based on a suspicion that came from our 5-eyes spy pact that Huawei software would have a back-door exploit that the Chinese government could use. We dont know for sure if the back-door exists. We dont know if the Chinese government knows about it if it does exist. We dont know if the Huawei decision is the reason we are getting the cold shoulder from China. We do know that the USA is not acting towards us as a trade ally.

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Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2180716 15-Feb-2019 11:08

Storm in a teacup?

FWIW, here's a (Google) translation of the notice published by Xinhua (China state news agency):

Xinhua News Agency, Wellington, January 5 (Reporter Guo Lei Lu Huaiqian) The Chinese Embassy in New Zealand on the 5th reminded Chinese tourists who are about to travel to new places to pay attention to driving safety, reasonably arrange self-driving trips, strictly abide by the driving rules, and cherish life and property safety.

　　Wang Dong, director of the Consulate General of the Chinese Embassy in the New Embassy, said in an interview with Xinhua News Agency on the 5th that 2019 is the "China-New Zealand Tourism Year." From the experience of previous years, the new Chinese tourists are more concentrated around the Spring Festival, and self-driving tour has become the choice of more and more Chinese tourists.

　　During the Christmas to New Year holidays, there were hundreds of traffic accidents in New Zealand, of which 48% were caused by vehicle out of control and overspeed, 10% because the perpetrators were not aware of the traffic rules for the right rudder to the left, and 9 % is caused by fatigue driving.

　　Wang Dong said that New Zealand's traffic rules and road conditions are different from China's, and most Chinese tourists experience long-distance flights, the time difference is reversed, especially to prevent fatigue driving, while familiar with the right rudder to the left driving rules.

　　New Zealand highways are mostly split in two directions, with no separation belt in the middle; most of the intersections do not have traffic lights, use roundabouts and avoidance rules; roads are steep and steep, and driving speed is faster. New Zealand experts believe that strengthening supervision of the rental car industry can also reduce traffic accidents caused by foreign tourists to a certain extent.

(well said - I don't know why negative spin is being put on this)

Notice from the Chinese Embassy:

Recently, the Embassy in New Zealand, the Consulate General in Auckland, and the Consulate General in Christchurch have repeatedly received calls from Chinese tourists and tour groups, saying that during their trip to New Zealand, the vehicles were smashed and even the whole The tour group’s luggage was stolen. The relevant incidents have been reported to the local police, and the new embassy and relevant consulates have also made representations to the new police. Due to the low rate of police investigations, Chinese tourists’ documents were still lost and personal property suffered heavy losses. At the same time, the new embassy has also received calls from Chinese citizens for help, reflecting that although they have a valid New Zealand visa, they were refused entry at the time of arrival and were forced to return.

In view of this, the embassies and consulates in New Zealand reminded the majority of Chinese tourists to make various preparations in advance before going to New Zealand to learn more about New Zealand visa policies, entry and exit and customs regulations. At the same time, during the new travel period, improve self-protection awareness, strengthen security, and be sure to carry your personal passport and valuables with you. Avoid personal loss of property due to temporary relaxation of vigilance and affect the itinerary. In case of emergency, please report to the police and contact the Chinese Embassy or Consulate General in New Zealand for assistance.

(IIRC, this follows an incident where some scumbag stole an entire trailer filled with luggage behind a small tourist shuttle-bus when it was stopped for a few minutes)

gzt

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#2181122 15-Feb-2019 21:50

Bluntj: My take on it is that we joined in with our allies to stop Huawei getting 5G rollout in this country that was probably dictated to by the USA.

My take is it's partly true. On the other hand the reality is feedback on the proposal was provided to Spark and Spark has an opportunity to modify the proposal to meet those concerns. Last I saw in the news several weeks ago those concerns were on installation and configuration and not the equipment.

Listening to the news this morning there was a former head of a UK intelligence agency saying they have heaps of Huawei equipment and love the stuff. Seems like UK is not overly concerned.

Bluntj

556 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2181921 18-Feb-2019 10:53

Interesting that the Brits have given the green light to Huawei. Makes what our Government is saying to be wrong.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2181940 18-Feb-2019 11:32

Bluntj:

Interesting that the Brits have given the green light to Huawei. Makes what our Government is saying to be wrong.

[rock] -> NZ <- [hard place]

I wouldn't be sure that you could say the UK has given a green light, seems more like an orange light:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/feb/17/uk-security-chiefs-huawei-risk-in-5g-can-be-contained

gzt

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#2182023 18-Feb-2019 14:49

Bluntj:
Interesting that the Brits have given the green light to Huawei. Makes what our Government is saying to be wrong.

I expect it's just a less transparent process in UK where the agencies and telcos keep talking behind closed doors and no one knows the outcome until details are sorted out.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2182081 18-Feb-2019 16:22

gzt:
Bluntj:

Interesting that the Brits have given the green light to Huawei. Makes what our Government is saying to be wrong.

I expect it's just a less transparent process in UK where the agencies and telcos keep talking behind closed doors and no one knows the outcome until details are sorted out.

What?

You're surely not suggesting that the process used here was "transparent"?

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Bluntj

556 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2183429 19-Feb-2019 09:26

and now Jacinda has back tracked....amazing...

gzt

17157 posts

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#2183620 19-Feb-2019 13:56

Bluntj:
and now Jacinda has back tracked....amazing...

Amazing that you think she's backtracked...

kingdragonfly

11208 posts

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#2184818 21-Feb-2019 13:43

From Stuff
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/110688957/ardern-no-final-huawei-5g-decision

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is not ruling out involvement by Chinese telco giant Huawei in New Zealand's 5G network, amid concern that our relationship with China could be under strain.

The Government Communications and Security Bureau (GCSB) has found a "significant network security risk" in Spark's proposal to use Huawei equipment for its New Zealand 5G network, but Ardern said no final decision had been made....

Huawei "never were not" in the running, she said. "There was a very quick interpretation of what had happened... The legislation sets out a process. The GCSB have raised concerns, that is in the public domain, they have gone back to Spark with those concerns. Now the ball is in Spark's court."

From the BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47305420

Could Huawei threaten the Five Eyes alliance?

Public services and safety will be carefully managed though data, while devices in our homes will talk to each other and the wider world as part of the "internet-of-things".

Many of these services will be delivered over what is called 5G. It will be much more than just faster data on our phones, but potentially transformational for our lives - if you believe the hype.

But there is a darker fear as well. What if it is also transformational for our security if we end up reliant on a Chinese company to deliver this future?

That question risks causing a major divide in the Five Eyes - the intelligence alliance between the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

It sounds like the UK, Canada and New Zealand are having second thoughts about supporting the US against China.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2184859 21-Feb-2019 14:28

Well there's been no public evidence put forward to support the claims that Huawei put "backdoors" into 5g equipment.

The other issue with the US is with Huawei breaking US sanctions on Iran, by selling them equipment that contained US technology. The sanctions were unilateral US sanctions, not UN sanctions - so nothing to do with NZ.

China's "Made in China 2025" campaign includes to invest huge sums (> $200 billion IIRC) in developing domestic chipmaking infrastructure. The US will try to hobble that using all possible means.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2185017 21-Feb-2019 19:58

Meanwhile...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-australia-coal-exclusive/exclusive-chinas-dalian-port-bans-australian-coal-imports-sets-2019-quota-source-idUSKCN1QA0F1?utm_source=reddit.com

kingdragonfly

11208 posts

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#2185039 21-Feb-2019 20:26

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/02/18/huaweis-efforts-to-steal-apple/

Huawei's Efforts to Steal Apple Trade Secrets Include Employee Bonus Program and Other Dubious Tactics

Last month, the United States Justice Department announced a series of criminal charges against Chinese smartphone maker Huawei for stealing trade secrets, bank fraud, wire fraud, and obstructing justice. Today, The Information has shed light on Huawei's tactics of stealing trade secrets, some of which were aimed at Apple.

According to today's report, a Huawei engineer in charge of the company's smartwatch project tracked down a supplier that makes the heart rate sensor for the Apple Watch. The Huawei engineer arranged a meeting, suggesting he was offering the supplier a lucrative manufacturing contract, but during the meeting his main intent was questioning the supplier about the Apple Watch.

The Huawei engineer attended the supplier meeting with four Huawei researchers in tow. The Huawei team spent the next hour and a half pressing the supplier for details about the Apple Watch, the executive said.

“They were trying their luck, but we wouldn’t tell them anything,” the executive said. After that, Huawei went silent.

This event reportedly reflects "a pattern of dubious tactics" performed by Huawei to obtain technology from rivals, particularly Apple's China-based suppliers. According to a Huawei spokesperson the company has not been in the wrong: "In conducting research and development, Huawei employees must search and use publicly available information and respect third-party intellectual property per our business-conduct guidelines."

According to the U.S. Justice Department, Huawei is said to have a formal program that rewards employees for stealing information, including bonuses that increase based on the confidential value of the information gathered. While the theft of trade secrets is nothing new among technology companies, the new allegations against Huawei represent "a more brazen and elaborate system of seeking out secret information," The Information reports.

Huawei's information gathering program led to incidents like the Huawei engineer probing a supplier for Apple Watch details, as well as Huawei copying a component of the MacBook Pro. Specifically, the company built a connector for its MateBook Pro that was just like the one used in Apple's MacBook Pro from 2016, allowing the computer's hinge to be thinner while still attaching the display to the logic board.

Huawei reportedly approached numerous suppliers and provided them with schematics just like Apple's, but most recognized the part and refused to make it for Huawei. The company told The Information that it requires suppliers to uphold a high standard of ethics and that it doesn't seek or have access to its competitor's confidential information. Eventually, Huawei found a willing supplier and the connector was built into the MateBook Pro.

The Information's report includes numerous other examples of Huawei's attempts at stealing information from Apple. One former Apple employee interviewed for a job at Huawei immediately after leaving Apple, and in the interview, Huawei executives repeatedly asked questions about Apple's upcoming products. "It was clear they were more interested in trying to learn about Apple than they were in hiring me," the former employee said.

Huawei's indictments extend far beyond Apple, including an accusation of bank and wire fraud against chief financial officer Meng Wanzhou, lying to the government, destroying documents, and attempting to move key Huawei employees back to China to impede the U.S. Justice Department investigation. Another indictment accused Huawei of stealing trade secrets, wire fraud, and obstructing justice for stealing robotic technology from T-Mobile U.S. for testing smartphone durability.

Bluntj

556 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2185051 21-Feb-2019 20:55

If Huawei is the eyes and ears to the Chinese Government the west has a lot to worry about. The Chinese Government are already the largest hacker in the world and will only grow in sophistication.

We cannot forget that the Chinese blatantly ignore copyright on EVERYTHING from the west.

This is no small story and it has only just begun.

kingdragonfly

11208 posts

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#2185195 22-Feb-2019 09:12

It is annoying when China tries to present itself as an "developing" country, when they want to disregard international laws.

On the other hand, the US has allowed corporations to dictate the copyright and patents laws. You need only look at big pharmo perversion of patent laws.

For example insulin, a life saving drug used by millions of people.

Almost one hundred years ago, Canadian researchers got the Nobel prize from the discovery of insulin. They did not profit financially from their discovery. Rather, they sold the patent to the University of Toronto for $1, saying no one should profit from a lifesaving medication.

However the University of Toronto then sold the patent to 3 pharmaceutical firms, who to this day keep "updating" the insulin patent.

In the US a medical patent is issued whenever a formula changes.

Important: the formula doesn't have to be better in any way, just different.

Today, the USA list price for a single vial of insulin is more than $250. The price has doubled in six years.

Because of corporate lobbying, the US patent laws make all this perfectly legal. It's whatever the market will bear.

When you have people who will literally dies without your product, you can charge whatever you like.

http://money.com/money/5394266/insulin-price-increase-rationing/

Insulin Prices Have More Than Doubled in the Last 6 Years — and Now People Are Dying Because They Can’t Afford the Drug

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