The great god

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rb99

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#312415 15-Apr-2024 10:32

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/514270/government-investigates-4km-tunnel-under-wellington

Here's an idea - if they can manage to find the money for this (wonder how many they're have to fire to pay for it), maybe they could actually do something useful with the money instead, like, I dunno, some new Interislanders maybe ...

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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freitasm

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#3218522 15-Apr-2024 10:49

We need to solve the Wellington traffic problem.

But a 4 KM tunnel under a major faultline?

What could possibly go wrong?

PS. Wait for the millions invested in "studies" that will come to nothing.

freitasm

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#3218523 15-Apr-2024 10:50

Also, why not post this as a reply in the existing Luxon government thread? Or do you want to discuss the politics of transport specifically?

rb99

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#3218535 15-Apr-2024 11:20

Just though it wasn't really him specifically so maybe worth a separate thread. If it gets discussed further it can be about this vs other priorities, like, as mentioned, getting to the other big island reliably, or how much in 'donations' the road industry (I presume) gives to get money money money spent on them, or using the money on public transport to fix the traffic problem in Wellington.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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SaltyNZ

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#3218536 15-Apr-2024 11:22

freitasm:

We need to solve the Wellington traffic problem.

But a 4 KM tunnel under a major faultline?

What could possibly go wrong?

PS. Wait for the millions invested in "studies" that will come to nothing.

A 4km tunnel for more cars, no less.

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MikeB4

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#3218565 15-Apr-2024 13:42

Adding more capacity does not solve congestion. A good example of that is Transmission Gully. The way to solve traffic congestion is alternatives to cars for mass transport for example trains, buses, cycles, mobility devices and feet.

floydbloke

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#3218625 15-Apr-2024 14:44

MikeB4:

Adding more capacity does not solve congestion. A good example of that is Transmission Gully.

...

I suspect a few thousand Kapiti Coast residents who get home every day from a commute to Wellington in time to have dinner with their families and read their kids a bed-time story may disagree with this.

Thanks for explaining "plethora".

It means a lot.

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#3218673 15-Apr-2024 14:51

Here is the press release:

State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.

“Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy. The Long Tunnel option aligns strongly with priorities in the Government Policy Statement on Land Transport (GPS), including a reduction in travel times, greater resilience for the SH1 corridor, and improved safety for road users, pedestrians, and cyclists,” Mr Brown says.

“The Long Tunnel option has the potential to deliver up to 15-minute travel time savings between the region and Wellington airport, compared to around 2-3 minutes for the current parallel or diagonal tunnel proposals at Mt Victoria and the Basin.

“The option would also see better urban amenity through greater reallocation of surface level road space to active modes and public transport in the CBD and greater opportunities for housing intensification. Enhanced regional connectivity to the airport and hospital would also be achieved with reduced city and state highway congestion.

“The option would also mean less construction disruption for local traffic as the Long Tunnel option could be built with less disruption to the city centre and less impact on public and private properties required for other options.

“To rebuild our economy and ensure people and freight can get to where they need to go quickly and safely, we need to move at pace to deliver the infrastructure our country needs.

“I look forward to receiving advice from NZTA on the technical feasibility, cost, and funding and financing options for this proposal as NZTA works on delivering the Government’s priority of a second Mt Victoria Tunnel in Wellington.”

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MikeB4

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#3218677 15-Apr-2024 15:13

floydbloke:

I suspect a few thousand Kapiti Coast residents who get home every day from a commute to Wellington in time to have dinner with their families and read their kids a bed-time story may disagree with this.

The congestion North to south (more or less) is still present as is the congestion south to north but that is beyond the dormitory areas. The journey into the city and its eastern environs is like a funnel, no matter how wide or what the capacity of the widest part of that funnel is the access to the destination is still small. The only way to resolve that congestion is to reduce what is going into the funnel and in this example trains, buses, light rail etc will move more humans through the funnel.

rb99

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#3218721 15-Apr-2024 16:17

Or to indulge in something I believe in something called, I believe, the 15 minute city, but I suppose you don't get to have nice ribbon cutting ceremonies for politicians for 15 minute cities like you do for ridiculously overpriced 4km bits of tunnel.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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neb

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#3218737 15-Apr-2024 17:58

MikeB4:
Adding more capacity does not solve congestion.

See "Jevons paradox". Utopia explained this quite well.

What's the bet this is how the Wellington tunnel ends up?

neb

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#3218739 15-Apr-2024 18:09

rb99:
Or to indulge in something I believe in something called, I believe, the 15 minute city, but I suppose you don't get to have nice ribbon cutting ceremonies for politicians for 15 minute cities like you do for ridiculously overpriced 4km bits of tunnel.

You also have a bunch of conspiracy-theory nutters, the same crowd who occupied the Parliament grounds in 2022, who believe 15-minute cities are part of the attempt by the UN or aliens or something to take over the world and turn us all into Soylent green, or some other craziness.

quickymart

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#3218802 15-Apr-2024 22:25

Building more roads doesn't solve congestion, I have a feeling that (maybe? can't quite remember) Bill English said something along those lines when he was National leader.

Mind you, I don't think Simeon Brown was Transport Minister back then.

rb99

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#3218881 16-Apr-2024 09:09

neb:
rb99:

Or to indulge in something I believe in something called, I believe, the 15 minute city, but I suppose you don't get to have nice ribbon cutting ceremonies for politicians for 15 minute cities like you do for ridiculously overpriced 4km bits of tunnel.

You also have a bunch of conspiracy-theory nutters, the same crowd who occupied the Parliament grounds in 2022, who believe 15-minute cities are part of the attempt by the UN or aliens or something to take over the world and turn us all into Soylent green, or some other craziness.

True, but OTOH its going quite well, and is pretty popular, in Paris apparently -

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99