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mattwnz
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  #2734608 25-Jun-2021 16:50
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sen8or:

 

mattwnz:

 

In terms of the term millionaire, often we now often hear rich people referred to in the media  as multimillionaires. Rather than just a millionaire. 

 

A significant amount of wealth has been created out of thin air (and from money printing) as a direct result of Covid, due to the 30% + house price inflation. But the net effect is that the well off have gotten richer, and the poor (in particular non property owners) have stayed at similar levels, or gotten poorer, esp if their rent has gone up. So the wealth that was created from thin air was not distributed. The government now has to spend years redistributing that wealth properly with taxes etc to fix the problem. But people don't want their houses to be taxed, but that is difficult when the values have gone up so much , often completely tax free. One could argue it is in inflation hit.

 

 

 

 

If you were cashing out of the market, that would certainly be true, but for many who buy/sell in the same market, the increase is nullified as they simply have to pay more for whatever they are buying, nill net gain (or close enough if playing in the same sand pit) with only changes in circumstances impacting the gain/loss in true wealth (larger/smaller house, changing suburbs / cities etc).

 

On paper my house may have risen, but as I have no intention of selling it, its a moot point, no different than if the paper value of the property declined, until I exit the market completely, its "feel good" wealth only.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It all depends. Buying and selling in different areas could release a million dollars for some easily. Eg Selling in Auckland and buying down south somewhere. Likewise downsizing or moving from a house into an apartment. 

 

But the increase in equity over the last year or so is what has made many families in NZ  millionaires. Lets say someone had a house that was worth $800,000 in 2019, with $500,000 equity ($300,000 mortgage). Currently they maybe able to sell it for $1,300,000 in 2021, which wouldn't be unexpected in todays market. Especially as one bank has predicted house prices may rise another 15% in the next year .  That is an increase in equity of another $500,000, meaning they now have equity of a million dollars, largely thanks to Covid. They could then sell and buy down south and get a house for maybe $600,000 without a mortgage and still have $400,000 in cash. So they are essentially millionaires in assets and cash.




Handle9
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  #2734613 25-Jun-2021 16:56
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MikeB4:

 

I can't stand terms like millionaire or billionaire. I feel the same about the press using terms like Joe Bloggs builder from Te awakairangi or Betty Boop Sales Account Manager from Poneke. They are simply person from Te awakairangi.

 

 

That's because you are a millionaire but have no chance of being a billionaire.


MikeB4
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  #2734663 25-Jun-2021 19:32
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@Handle9 No I identify as a person, my job, my wealth, my qualifications, my illness do not and will not define me.




Dingbatt
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  #2734734 25-Jun-2021 20:20
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MikeB4:

 

@Handle9 No I identify as a person, my job, my wealth, my qualifications, my illness do not and will not define me.

 

 

No Mike, I think the things you mention plus a whole bunch of other stuff do define you. They combine with your experiences to make the whole person you are. But they shouldn’t be used to categorise you.





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Geektastic

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  #2734812 25-Jun-2021 21:38
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frankv:

Geektastic: It also depends on the currency.

$1m NZ is, for example, about £500,000 or US$750,000.


Yeah, I was an Italian millionaire once.


 



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gzt

gzt
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  #2734818 25-Jun-2021 22:25
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Geektastic: Millionaire: is it still a relevant descriptor?

Yes. If you can release a million dollars in equity then you have a lot more options in life compared to someone else. Absolutely.

Batman
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  #2734839 26-Jun-2021 07:35
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Geektastic:

 

I was reading an article in the press the other day and they were reporting on how many people had become millionaires during Covid.

 

 

 

I sat and thought about the use of the word - it seems a bit ineffectual now. For example, when I was born, in the late 60's, someone who was a millionaire then was pretty well off - to have the same spending power as they had then in today's money (USD) you would need about $8.5 million now.

 

 

 

So the value of the money required to be a millionaire is a fraction of what it was even 50 years ago or so yet we still cling to the term and the positive or negative aspects of it as if it were still the same.

 

 

 

The MSM continue to throw the term around - usually with at least a whiff of the pejorative about it - but logically it no longer seems to quite fit the bill. The money value has been eaten by inflation but the term definition has not.

 

 

basically if you have a house in urban NZ - congratulations you're a millionaire

 

where did that come front - well the 50 billion NZD printed because of our March 202 lockdown alone - that would have elevated a few thousand millionaires overnight


 
 
 

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tdgeek
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  #2734846 26-Jun-2021 08:22
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Batman:

 

basically if you have a house in urban NZ - congratulations you're a millionaire

 

where did that come front - well the 50 billion NZD printed because of our March 202 lockdown alone - that would have elevated a few thousand millionaires overnight

 

 

This housing crisis started well before Covid, and its global. Perhaps if more people built their house instead of the more convenient sign today and move in in 3 weeks, the problem wouldn't exist. Maths 101


Batman
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  #2734871 26-Jun-2021 09:39
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Umm taking about new millionaires since covid...

It came from the money printed during the level 4 lockdown. Where else did the money go?

frankv
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  #2734882 26-Jun-2021 10:18
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Batman:

 

basically if you have a house in urban NZ - congratulations you're a millionaire

 

 

Well, no. It's your nett worth. You're a millionaire if you have a million dollars, not if you borrow a million.

 

 


Batman
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  #2734901 26-Jun-2021 10:31
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sorry i mean own a house without owing anything


mattwnz
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  #2735033 26-Jun-2021 14:32
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Batman: Umm taking about new millionaires since covid...

It came from the money printed during the level 4 lockdown. Where else did the money go?

 

 

 

Yes. They printed around 100 billion. Banks are now also lending LESS money to businesses than ever, when it was supposed to go to businesses. Although housing has rocketed up in total by more than 300 billion, increasing peoples personal wealth who own these homes by that amount. But the housing market currently isn't working properly wit the limited supply (record low levels), that FOMO and cheap money is causing people to pay these insane prices as they have no choice if they want to get onto the 'property ladder' today.  It risks a major correction according to S&P. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/125568980/ratings-agency-sp-warns-house-prices-may-rise-further-risking-bigger-correction 

 

I see on trademe insights, that almost every house in my town is 'worth' nearly a million dollars or more. Pre covid it was around the 600-700k. Insane that some of these shacks are 1 million. However I think it is mainly due to land prices , and limited stock because they are now trying to sell land for $600k, because some land has sold for around that, and land is going up in price by about 50k every few months. Was les than 300k pre covid, so has doubled in price. Easily to see why so many people on paper are now millionaires as a result of covid, and it has caused a lot of greed. But history has shown that many people make their wealth during bad times like this, and money printing helps the wealthy and asset owners far more than non asset owners.


mattwnz
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  #2735043 26-Jun-2021 14:42
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frankv:

 

Batman:

 

basically if you have a house in urban NZ - congratulations you're a millionaire

 

 

Well, no. It's your nett worth. You're a millionaire if you have a million dollars, not if you borrow a million.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The covid effect and normal NZ house price inflation will have however have likely increased the equity many home owner have in their house to a million dollars. Especially many Auckland owners who may have purchased a house 10+ years ago and in better parts of Auckland. Eg someone buying a 500k house and having 250k loan left, it is very likely it is now worth over 1.25 million dollars.


sen8or
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  #2735604 28-Jun-2021 08:31
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mattwnz:

 

Batman: Umm taking about new millionaires since covid...

It came from the money printed during the level 4 lockdown. Where else did the money go?

 

 

 

Yes. They printed around 100 billion. Banks are now also lending LESS money to businesses than ever, when it was supposed to go to businesses. Although housing has rocketed up in total by more than 300 billion, increasing peoples personal wealth who own these homes by that amount. But the housing market currently isn't working properly wit the limited supply (record low levels), that FOMO and cheap money is causing people to pay these insane prices as they have no choice if they want to get onto the 'property ladder' today.  It risks a major correction according to S&P. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/125568980/ratings-agency-sp-warns-house-prices-may-rise-further-risking-bigger-correction 

 

I see on trademe insights, that almost every house in my town is 'worth' nearly a million dollars or more. Pre covid it was around the 600-700k. Insane that some of these shacks are 1 million. However I think it is mainly due to land prices , and limited stock because they are now trying to sell land for $600k, because some land has sold for around that, and land is going up in price by about 50k every few months. Was les than 300k pre covid, so has doubled in price. Easily to see why so many people on paper are now millionaires as a result of covid, and it has caused a lot of greed. But history has shown that many people make their wealth during bad times like this, and money printing helps the wealthy and asset owners far more than non asset owners.

 

 

Housing shocks are never as bad as predicted for the simple reason that if there is a sign of a market downturn, those that can hold onto their property and "wait it out", will, especially if by selling they would worsen their position by having negative or little equity. There are circumstances of forced sales through loss of income, increase in interest rates making mortgages unaffordable or other changes, but by and large, people will look to protect their position which will then lessen supply in the market somewhat cushioning the impact.

 

 


BlueShift
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  #2735607 28-Jun-2021 08:48
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frankv:

 

Batman:

 

basically if you have a house in urban NZ - congratulations you're a millionaire

 

 

Well, no. It's your nett worth. You're a millionaire if you have a million dollars, not if you borrow a million.

 

 

"If you owe a million, you're worth a million - to someone."


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