Fraudulent Charges on my Kiwibank account

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Forums › Finance and wealth management › Fraudulent Charges on my Kiwibank account

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kingdragonfly

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#3188082 29-Jan-2024 12:30

I think I am confused

In the US for decades, if you had a bad credit rating, you could get a Mastercard / Visa debit card with this feature:

It was tied to a checking/savings account.

To a merchant it was processed as a normal credit card.

Your "credit" was first pulled from your checking/saving account, and then any remaining caused an automatic overdraft, and an eye-watering daily interest rate would instantly kick in.

It was pretty nasty, because anyone who had this type of card was probably already abusing credit cards, so it was Mastercard / Visa enabling them to go even further into debt.

freitasm

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#3188089 29-Jan-2024 13:13

djtOtago:

What bank offers a Credit card that is tied to your checking / savings account?
My experience with Credit cards suggests they are all ways a separate account.

It's called a Debit Card. All banks offer those.

It has a card number that can be used for online purchases like a credit card but instead of you paying at the end of the month cycle it's withdrawn from your bank account funds.

It's like an ATM but for online shopping (and offline shopping too, because they can use wireless payments which are processed by the credit card companies).

David321

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#3188096 29-Jan-2024 13:28

Here is an update for everyone.

My wife called and confirmed to Kiwibank what I was telling them (that she did not make the purchases), now Kiwibank says their fraud team will investigate and this can take up to........... 60 days!

We have asked a few times if we will get the money back, to which they have answered (as I would expect), they can not tell us until the investigation is done.

I did read somewhere that Kiwibank will not hold customers liable for fraudulent purchases bar a few exceptions such as not notifying them of a stolen card etc. However I did read somewhere (cant find it now) that atm card fraud (or something like that) is excluded.

Some of the transactions are listed on our statement were originally "Mercurgo mercurgo" and now these have changed to "ATM W/D" which obviously means ATM withdrawal. I'm a bit concerned I wont get this money back as the bank may not have any luck reversing this charge if the person has it as cash already?

_David_

heavenlywild

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#3188098 29-Jan-2024 13:38

Yep you will just have to wait. Usually they come back within a few days based on my personal experience, although not with Kiwi Bank.

CYaBro

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#3188099 29-Jan-2024 13:39

David321:

Here is an update for everyone.

My wife called and confirmed to Kiwibank what I was telling them (that she did not make the purchases), now Kiwibank says their fraud team will investigate and this can take up to........... 60 days!

We have asked a few times if we will get the money back, to which they have answered (as I would expect), they can not tell us until the investigation is done.

I did read somewhere that Kiwibank will not hold customers liable for fraudulent purchases bar a few exceptions such as not notifying them of a stolen card etc. However I did read somewhere (cant find it now) that atm card fraud (or something like that) is excluded.

Some of the transactions are listed on our statement were originally "Mercurgo mercurgo" and now these have changed to "ATM W/D" which obviously means ATM withdrawal. I'm a bit concerned I wont get this money back as the bank may not have any luck reversing this charge if the person has it as cash already?

Yea, if it was "used" at an ATM then that means they had her PIN as well as a clone of the card.
The bank will want to know how they got her PIN.

Did she give it to them? Did she have it written down? Stolen from another ATM with a skimming device and camera?
I guess that's why they don't refund from ATM card fraud, unless perhaps if it can found where the card was cloned and PIN stolen.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

David321

485 posts

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#3188103 29-Jan-2024 14:03

CYaBro:

David321:

Here is an update for everyone.

My wife called and confirmed to Kiwibank what I was telling them (that she did not make the purchases), now Kiwibank says their fraud team will investigate and this can take up to........... 60 days!

We have asked a few times if we will get the money back, to which they have answered (as I would expect), they can not tell us until the investigation is done.

I did read somewhere that Kiwibank will not hold customers liable for fraudulent purchases bar a few exceptions such as not notifying them of a stolen card etc. However I did read somewhere (cant find it now) that atm card fraud (or something like that) is excluded.

Some of the transactions are listed on our statement were originally "Mercurgo mercurgo" and now these have changed to "ATM W/D" which obviously means ATM withdrawal. I'm a bit concerned I wont get this money back as the bank may not have any luck reversing this charge if the person has it as cash already?

Yea, if it was "used" at an ATM then that means they had her PIN as well as a clone of the card.
The bank will want to know how they got her PIN.

Did she give it to them? Did she have it written down? Stolen from another ATM with a skimming device and camera?
I guess that's why they don't refund from ATM card fraud, unless perhaps if it can found where the card was cloned and PIN stolen.

Never given her card to anyone or had her pin written down or anything else a bit clumsy like that.

When I google Mercurgo it seems to be some sort of bitcoin wallet, but it changed on the statement from "Mercurgo" to "ATM W/D". No sure what this means, I thought they might have bought crypto and then withdrawn it, but that does not quite make sense either as its showing as a separate purchase.

_David_

MadEngineer

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#3188202 29-Jan-2024 18:11

Hopefully you screenshotted the transactions.

Those charges could be fees, which also should be credited.

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David321

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#3189588 2-Feb-2024 10:31

Just an update for anyone interested, my wife got a text from Kiwibank yesterday saying the investigation is complete and she will get a refund within 20 days. If my memory serves me correctly it took about two weeks for the investigation. Now I am just waiting to see if the total amount is refunded and not just some of it, as there was 7 different transactions with 3 different companies.

I had a email from the police asking for more detail after I filled out an online 10/5 form, they asked me to get certified bank statements showing the fraudulent transactions with locations and times, I replied saying ill ask Kiwibank but that I am not hopeful they will reply as their coms are very poor. I also suggested they contact Kiwibank for those details as they may have better luck with a reply than me.

I forwarded the police request to Kiwibank, no reply at all, also no reply from police.

_David_

mattwnz

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#3189653 2-Feb-2024 14:29

If you have a visa debit card, what I do is only load money onto it that I am going to use, by doing a quick online transfer in online banking. Also contact the bank to remove any overdraft limits on the card, as by default my bank had setup the card so it allowed it to go into overdraft which I didn't want. They also charge interest if it goes into ovedraft which I presume is why it was enabled by default.

Spyware

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#3189674 2-Feb-2024 15:41

mattwnz:

If you have a visa debit card, what I do is only load money onto it that I am going to use, by doing a quick online transfer in online banking.

How tedious.

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richms

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#3189682 2-Feb-2024 15:50

Spyware:

mattwnz:

If you have a visa debit card, what I do is only load money onto it that I am going to use, by doing a quick online transfer in online banking.

How tedious.

Yeah, I just don't use it unless I have to because its easier to use the credit cards. But its always nice to have a backup method of getting to my money since getting more than one eftpos/atm card is apparently very difficult for them to do, vs simply issuing a debit card.

Richard rich.ms

kingdragonfly

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#3189684 2-Feb-2024 15:54

Unless I missed something, not using a Visa debit card is also a solution.

I only use a credit card for on-line purchases.

I also asked my bank to remove the Visa/Mastercard feature from the debit card.

I've heard good things about using Wise.com debit card for on-line purchases.

I understand using a Visa debit card also does not affect your credit score, which would be a downside for people trying to establish a credit history.

Am I missing something?

mattwnz

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#3189685 2-Feb-2024 16:03

Spyware:

mattwnz:

If you have a visa debit card, what I do is only load money onto it that I am going to use, by doing a quick online transfer in online banking.

How tedious.

Not really, I do leave $50 on it just to use for small purchases. But for larger purchases, it is all done on the app anyway and is connected to apple pay, it is a very quick and simple process on the phone to move over money, plus the money is earning some interest while in my bank account. With a debit card you have to manage the money going onto it anyway.

David321

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#3189692 2-Feb-2024 16:25

kingdragonfly: Unless I missed something, not using a Visa debit card is also a solution.

I only use a credit card for on-line purchases.

I also asked my bank to remove the Visa/Mastercard feature from the debit card.

I've heard good things about using Wise.com debit card for on-line purchases.

I understand using a Visa debit card also does not affect your credit score, which would be a downside for people trying to establish a credit history.

Am I missing something?

I suspect credit cards details would have been fraudulently accessed the same way my wife's debit card details were accessed. At least with a debit card they can only take whats in that account, which was lucky for us as we usually don't have much in that particular account.

There is aso no extra security guarantees that come with a credit card rather than a debit card, they are both controlled by Visa or Mastercard.

I also have a wise card, but that costs money to use when transferring funds even if NZ dollars.

So yeah, no advantage of a credit card than a debit card that I can see, could be a disadvantage actually as they could have charged heaps to a credit card rather than a debit.

_David_

David321

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#3200404 27-Feb-2024 09:35

Another update, Kiwibank finally refunded us, about $5 less that was taken, I would ask them about this and ask for the full amount back but to be honest dealing with Kiwibank throughout this has been absolutely traumatic so im happy with $5 less than was taken.

_David_

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