Bank account name matching "coming soon" when making a payment?

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Forums › Finance and wealth management › Bank account name matching "coming soon" when making a payment?

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Master Geek

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#3308928 14-Nov-2024 11:41

MadEngineer: I saw a malicious (hacked/leaked -> munged) email the other day demanding payment and it looked like the provided bank account “name” was something conveniently made up. Does anyone know if the checking here is also applied to the name of the account not just the account holder name?

So for example if you named an account as “Jimmys school fund” a payment was sent to it using that as the name would it be accepted?

With Westpac at least you can name your accounts as anything and change them as often as you like.

I have received notification of the changes from five banks so far.

In each case, they state that the name to be used for matching is my full legal first and last names.

One of them has stated that if I have changed my name, then I need to contact the bank with new proof of identity info.

Companies and legal entities such as Trusts, Charities etc, will presumably have their registered name used for matching purposes.

I am thinking your example of “Jimmys school fund” would relate to a nickname that you can specify yourself within your banking profile. If that's the case, as far as I can tell, the banks will ignore that nickname, they will only check a personal account name linked to an individual whose identity has been verified, and likewise a company or other legal entity, the name for checking will be directly linked to that entities registered and verifiable name.

wellygary

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#3308931 14-Nov-2024 11:51

geek3001:

Companies and legal entities such as Trusts, Charities etc, will presumably have their registered name used for matching purposes.

And that is gonna create a whole new can of worms as the name on the door of many business you deal with will have no relation to the actual legal company name they legally operate... requiring a "leap of faith"

I encountered this the other day paying a travel agent, the name on the door and all the correspondence were in one name, but the bank account number - which was registered as a bank payee by a major bank's internet banking site was listed as a totally different travel company....

Their response was -" oh yeah that's our corporate business name that we use on the other side of the firm, but we share the bank accounts,"- so no problem,

But the uncertainty created gives scammers and spammers an avenue of compromise....

snj

185 posts

Master Geek

#3308953 14-Nov-2024 12:20

MadEngineer: I saw a malicious (hacked/leaked -> munged) email the other day demanding payment and it looked like the provided bank account “name” was something conveniently made up. Does anyone know if the checking here is also applied to the name of the account not just the account holder name?

So for example if you named an account as “Jimmys school fund” a payment was sent to it using that as the name would it be accepted?

With Westpac at least you can name your accounts as anything and change them as often as you like.

The name matching is the name on the account (i.e. John Adam Smith / J A Smith / Smith Corp ...) rather than the alias. Also from the communications that the likes of Kiwibank sent out a few weeks/months back, a mismatch won't prevent the transaction going ahead, you'll just be warned before you make the transaction.

Looked up the email from Kiwibank, their info is at https://www.kiwibank.co.nz/personal-banking/accounts/payments/how-to-make-a-payment/#confirmation-of-payee-common-questions

For not a match:

You'll get a 'not a match' response if the name you've entered doesn't match the name registered to that account. If you continue with the payment, you could send money to the wrong place and it might not be recoverable.

wellygary

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#3308981 14-Nov-2024 13:56

snj:

For not a match:

You'll get a 'not a match' response if the name you've entered doesn't match the name registered to that account. If you continue with the payment, you could send money to the wrong place and it might not be recoverable.

Absolutely no Bank or anyone has explained how "similar" a name has to be to the partial, (And I suspect they will refuse "for security") - but TBH it basically sounds like a good "ass cover" for the banks to use unless its a "Total match"..

Getting metrics on what the % share of Total/partial/not match" would be really interesting - I'm guessing the "Total match" share will actually be rather low.. - esp if you exclude bank registered Payees (Councils, Utilities etc)

From that KB Link...

"What does a 'partial match' response mean?

You'll get a 'partial match' response if the account owner name is similar but not the name registered to that account.

You'll need to carefully check the details you've entered and consider whether you know and trust the payee before you make the payment. If the account details are incorrect your payment might not be recoverable.

What does a 'not a match' response mean?

You'll get a 'not a match' response if the name you've entered doesn't match the name registered to that account. If you continue with the payment, you could send money to the wrong place and it might not be recoverable.

As an aside I suspect as we speak scammers are busy opening accounts with lots of company names to brute force test how far away they can with account names to trigger the "Partial and no Match levels"

PolicyGuy

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#3309076 14-Nov-2024 19:38

wellygary:

As an aside I suspect as we speak scammers are busy opening accounts with lots of company names to brute force test how far away they can with account names to trigger the "Partial and no Match levels"

It's not all that easy to set up a bank account in NZ.
You need a bunch of documentation with names that match the name of the requested bank account.
If you wanted to scam customers that way it'd be quite a lot of work and quite expensive. E.g. if you were after Beaurepairs customers, setting up bank accounts with names like "Borepairs" or "Baeurepars" would take quite a lot of form filling and fee paying.

eracode

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#3313006 26-Nov-2024 11:33

eracode: 18-May-2024

[snip]

In our case, we have a joint account. In various places BNZ themselves show it as:

AB & CD Smith
AB Smith and CD Smith
Alpha Bravo Smith and Charlene Delta Smith
Mr AB & Mrs CD Smith
SMITH, ALPHA BRAVO & CHARLENE DELTA
I don’t know which is the correct legal version of the account name - so I don’t know which version I would have to give to a payer. Banks may have to start making it clear to customers the exact form of their account name.

The new system has got to the point where correct payee account names are now being asked for by payers. FWIW today I contacted BNZ to ask what is the correct form of our joint account name.

They referred me to the section of their website and app called 'Documents > Proof of Account'.

It appears that in our case the correct form of the account name is: SMITH, ALPHA BRAVO & CHARLENE DELTA

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

KiwiSurfer

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#3313014 26-Nov-2024 12:01

Seems like some banks need to up their game. Kiwibank did some changes to how the name appears in various places a few months ago and it seems to be consistent in most places now. My own accounts are in the form "Alpha Doe" now (previously MR A M DOE or similiar) and joints are "Alpha Doe, Beta Doe" (previously MR A M & MR B N DOE).

For joint accounts, I'll need to test how it works some day but I suspect the comma is a hint that the test is probably whether the name matches any one of the names in the comma-delimited list. Not sure if this is supposed to be how all the banks should do it or if that's how Kiwibank has implemented it.

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eracode

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#3313023 26-Nov-2024 12:21

KiwiSurfer:

Seems like some banks need to up their game. Kiwibank did some changes to how the name appears in various places a few months ago and it seems to be consistent in most places now. My own accounts are in the form "Alpha Doe" now (previously MR A M DOE or similiar) and joints are "Alpha Doe, Beta Doe" (previously MR A M & MR B N DOE).

For joint accounts, I'll need to test how it works some day but I suspect the comma is a hint that the test is probably whether the name matches any one of the names in the comma-delimited list. Not sure if this is supposed to be how all the banks should do it or if that's how Kiwibank has implemented it.

Interesting - yes, no sense of consistency there e.g. between Kiwibank and BNZ at least.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

k1w1k1d

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#3313027 26-Nov-2024 12:35

Westpac.

Joint account details on their website are just in my name ALPHA DOE.

If I download a statement the account details are on two lines

DOE ALPHA BETA

DOE CHARLENE DELTA

The statement is mailed to Mr A B and Mrs C D DOE

Will see what happens when someone wants to pay us.

jamesrt

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#3313036 26-Nov-2024 12:57

Will see what happens when someone wants to pay us.

I've PMed you, btw.

eracode

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#3313074 26-Nov-2024 15:18

k1w1k1d:

Westpac.

Joint account details on their website are just in my name ALPHA DOE.

If I download a statement the account details are on two lines

DOE ALPHA BETA

DOE CHARLENE DELTA

The statement is mailed to Mr A B and Mrs C D DOE

Will see what happens when someone wants to pay us.

I wonder if that’s because you’re looking at it under your login.

What does Charlene see if she logs in to the joint account?

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

snj

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#3313112 26-Nov-2024 16:34

ASB sent out their first (I think?) communication about the changes, one interesting thing I noticed was this:

When making a payment within New Zealand to a new payee, make sure you ask for their full first and last name or business account name, along with the correct account number.

If you’re expecting a payment, make sure you give your full first and last name, along with the correct account number. This might look different to what appears alongside your account details – John Smith rather than Mr J S Smith.

So looks like it's not based on the account name, but the name(s) of the holder(s) of the account. Based on their phrasing though it sounds like they believe the other banks will be doing the same. Based on this interpretation, looks like it may affect some people in annoying ways (people that use their second names instead of first for instance).

eracode

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#3313242 26-Nov-2024 18:29

snj:

ASB sent out their first (I think?) communication about the changes, one interesting thing I noticed was this:

When making a payment within New Zealand to a new payee, make sure you ask for their full first and last name or business account name, along with the correct account number.

If you’re expecting a payment, make sure you give your full first and last name, along with the correct account number. This might look different to what appears alongside your account details – John Smith rather than Mr J S Smith.

So looks like it's not based on the account name, but the name(s) of the holder(s) of the account. Based on their phrasing though it sounds like they believe the other banks will be doing the same. Based on this interpretation, looks like it may affect some people in annoying ways (people that use their second names instead of first for instance).

@snj I don’t think it looks like the way you say - the first quote seems to make it clear that it’s based on the account owner’s personal names OR a business account name.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

k1w1k1d

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#3313329 27-Nov-2024 08:02

Just checked our joint account details when wife was logged in. Account shows as CHARLENE DOE. As eracode suggested the account details just shows who is logged in at the time.

Wondering if you will have to give your name to buyers on Trade Me?

eracode

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#3313334 27-Nov-2024 08:30

k1w1k1d:

Wondering if you will have to give your name to buyers on Trade Me?

I guess so - which is a worry - I don't want to do that.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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