Kiwibank Google Pay "Liability"??

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Forums › Finance and wealth management › Kiwibank Google Pay "Liability"??

David321

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#311953 29-Feb-2024 15:00

Hi all,

I just got a message from Kiwibank that (finally) they are allowing contact less payments with Google pay, meaning I can load my debit plus card to my Google wallet and make payments with my phone, something I have always been keen to try.

However, upon reading the terms and conditions under “Liability” it states “you’ll be liable for all transactions made with your Kiwibank card using Google pay”.

This would not usually concern me too much, but recently my wife had some fraudulent purchases made with her card details for bit coin and a few other things totalling hundreds of dollars, but as per terms and conditions (and possibly NZ law?) we were not liable for fraudulent purchases so Kiwibank eventually refunded us the money. We have no idea how someone got hold of her card details which has left me wondering if Google pay was somehow compromised for an individual and the same thing happened the bank would not have to refund them?

_David_

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#3201637 29-Feb-2024 15:44

Damn - just turned on Google pay and was pretty excited..........bit less so after reading that.

Batman

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#3201640 29-Feb-2024 15:47

Hmm anyone knows if Bnz has that clause? I'm using Google pay with bnz...

michaelmurfy

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#3201641 29-Feb-2024 15:48

Same as other banks also with Google Pay, for example ANZ Bank:

The thing with Google Pay is it works even if your device is locked (not sure if there is a setting to adjust this). With Apple Pay it is secured against biometrics and if you take somebodys Apple Watch it'll lock straight away.

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richms

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#3201652 29-Feb-2024 16:03

they have said the same thing for use with a pin and have had to refund plenty of those because of skimming that they dont rate as enough of a problem to do anything about.

Richard rich.ms

CokemonZ

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#3201696 29-Feb-2024 17:05

Yeah, so I just tried it and didn't need to unlock my phone....

throbb

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#3201709 29-Feb-2024 17:45

I think under $80, no unlock is required.

rscole86

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#3201712 29-Feb-2024 17:49

As throbb mentioned, I'm certain there is a low limit that allows for locked payments. I know I can't do my weekly shop without unlocking.

If you're concerned you could just turn off NFC.

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mattwnz

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#3201749 29-Feb-2024 19:01

michaelmurfy:

Same as other banks also with Google Pay, for example ANZ Bank:

The thing with Google Pay is it works even if your device is locked (not sure if there is a setting to adjust this). With Apple Pay it is secured against biometrics and if you take somebodys Apple Watch it'll lock straight away.

The first clause highlighted in blue seems to contradict the above statement by Kiwibank (posted by the OP in the first post), which says 'anyone who can unlock your device can transact with a Kiwibank card loaded with Google Pay'

They don't appear to mention this apart from their fine print, that anyone with access to the device doesn't actually need to unlock it at all. I hope the media or NZ Consumer look into this.

jonathan18

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#3201903 1-Mar-2024 09:46

Just a word of caution re trusting only small transactions will go through when using GP without unlocking the phone - a couple of years ago I had two clear examples of where this limit wasn't honoured: I was able to make one transaction of over $2,000 and another of about $500 without unlocking my phone.

Despite numerous attempts to get this taken seriously by BNZ I never was able to get a straight answer as to why or how this could occur.

Covered in this thread here https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=97&topicid=295897

I like paying via my phone too much to give it up so now I always (or always try to!) have NFC disabled, and only enable it for making a transaction - sure, it's a hassle but still quicker/more convenient than carrying a wallet, getting the card out etc. This problem may be sorted but, for me, it's a matter of twice bitten, third shy...

Inphinity

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#3201936 1-Mar-2024 11:11

Yes, it currently allows transactions up to $80 without unlocking the device. However, some phones allow you to set NFC use to require unlock, will we prevent any transactions while the phone is locked. Consider whether changing this impacts any other use cases you have for NFC.

https://support.google.com/wallet/answer/12059519

jonathan18

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#3201955 1-Mar-2024 11:44

Inphinity:

Yes, it currently allows transactions up to $80 without unlocking the device. However, some phones allow you to set NFC use to require unlock, will we prevent any transactions while the phone is locked. Consider whether changing this impacts any other use cases you have for NFC.

https://support.google.com/wallet/answer/12059519

Yeah, as discussed in that thread, that setting is far from universally available on all phones, including those running the latest version of Android. This is despite the Google help page you link to above indicating that if you don't have it it's probably linked to needing to update the OS! ("If you can’t find this option, you may need to update your phone to the latest version of Android.")

Inphinity

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#3201960 1-Mar-2024 11:58

jonathan18:

Yeah, as discussed in that thread, that setting is far from universally available on all phones, including those running the latest version of Android. This is despite the Google help page you link to above indicating that if you don't have it it's probably linked to needing to update the OS! ("If you can’t find this option, you may need to update your phone to the latest version of Android.")

Sadly, yep, which is why I said some phones, not most ,or newer, etc ;) It'd be nice if it was universal.

Batman

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#3202003 1-Mar-2024 13:50

this is making me nervous!

David321

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#3208448 20-Mar-2024 10:22

Update, Kiwibank replied simply saying their terms saying the user is responsible weather the purchases were authorised or not do not conflict with visas zero liability terms.

I replied saying the obviously do, to which I got a reply from them saying "From my understanding It means that you would be responsible for all transactions you make intentional or otherwise But if someone else uses your card then we can assist in getting funds back via the Zero liability policy with Visa."

Not sure what to make of it really, the person sending their reply has covered themselves by starting with "From my understanding" which gives me doubt he is sure about what he is saying.

_David_

MartinGZ

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#3209194 21-Mar-2024 15:37

David321:

...But if someone else uses your card then we can assist in getting funds back via the Zero liability policy with Visa."

Note he is not talking about Google Pay, but your card. I would only take what is written in the T&C.

That KB Clause 5 is open to interpretation. Is that second sentence referring to the first sentence where someone else has access to your device or is it stand alone. As there is no sort of conjunction, I see it as standalone, but I see it could be interpreted otherwise.

But it gets worse.

"What is the maximum amount I can make in a single transaction?
There's no specific transaction limit for Google Pay transactions on Kiwibank credit cards, however you'll need to stay within the daily Kiwibank Visa Debit Card purchase limit if you're using your Visa Debit Card to pay for your purchase."

My emphasis, KB source

I have a relatively low credit card limit on purpose (to limit liability), so this does alarm me. Why is this not in the T&C?

I don't use my debit card for online transactions to limit liability, but given the above, if I use Google Pay linked to my credit card, liablity skyrockets. Just dumb!

I had a quick squiz at another random bank. Although Westpac NZ seem to be much more user friendly than KB in their T&C, they too cover their backsides:

"24. You agree that you will be responsible for all transactions made using your Westpac card with Google Pay following successful login to your device. In particular, you agree that each time your Android device registers a login to perform a transaction using a Westpac card in the Google Wallet app, you instruct us to perform that transaction in accordance with these Terms and the General Terms and Conditions."

Westpac Source

Personally, I've never quite seen the attraction of Google Pay, still undecided. But all this is not exactly positive even though my phone is locked down as much as possible.

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