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sen8or

1789 posts

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#312795 17-May-2024 14:35
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So I see in todays Herald, yet another article about an unfortunate victim of overseas scammers, fleecing some $200k (after $100+ was recovered) and the victim is trying to lay blame on the banks. Here, it seems the bank followed reasonable steps to ensure the authenticity of the transaction, even phoning the victim to double check the details before authorizing the offshore transaction. Whilst its a sad day that someone loses their life savings, in this case (from the info within the article), it looks like the bank was as much in the dark about the fraud as the victim was and had no reasonable alerts / highlights to think otherwise.

 

The nature of the fraud seems very familiar, investment returns that looked inviting, well researched fraudster who gained the trust of the victim etc etc etc. The victim quite rightfully feels hard done by having lost about $200k, but my question is, how much of the responsibility should the banks wear?

 

Banks are custodians of our money, but ultimately they are there to act on our instructions. If you make a bill payment to the wrong payee using internet banking or similar, there is no intermediary, no magical know it all system that knows you goofed and its up to you try and correct your error by getting the money back. Particularly in the case of transfers to a NZ bank account, the opportunity for a bank to step in and stop the transaction must be almost nil. If its going offshore, there may be a bit more time, but still only hours I would have thought.

 

Is this a case of the victim trying to garner public support to put community pressure on the bank?

 

Some will say that they make enough profit already and should see the victim right, but, why should they if they haven't done anything wrong? If they do just pay back all victims of fraud, ultimately its all the banks customer's that will end up paying through higher interest rates and/or higher fees.


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marpada
475 posts

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  #3231844 17-May-2024 15:10
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Typical NZ media clickbait history, it comes in many flavours, inmigrant getting deported because failed to meet the requirements, tourists that couldn't be bothered to buy travel insurance and got a big hospital bill,...




Handle9
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  #3231892 17-May-2024 15:12
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Have you got a link?

 

It appears from your description that the bank has taken reasonable care to verify that the victim initiated the transaction and it was legitimate and one the the unfortunate victim wanted to make. Unless it's to an account which has been previously flagged I'm not sure what the bank has done wrong.

 

At that point what is the bank meant to do? It's the victims money, they can spend it how they like even if that seems stupid. I make regular foreign transactions and AML/CFT is aleady a massive pain in the backside. I'd be vehmently opposed to more obstacles to doing what I want to do with my money.


wellygary
8320 posts

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  #3231894 17-May-2024 15:16
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The Story is here 

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kiwi-scam-victim-loses-323k-to-fraudsters-accuses-westpac-bank-of-negligence-eyes-legal-action/L3ADDX6FSBAOTJKPPOJWECYHKE/

 

In this case the Bank called him and queried that transaction and he assured them it was a legitimate transfer.....this has so many red flags in what was promoted

 

An HSBC investment adviser  advising you to invest in Victoria State Government bonds with the National Australia Bank (NAB).

 

"“Mr Geraets assured us he was paying an Australian account at NAB that was in his and his spouse’s name, and did not mention it was an investment.”"

 

This guy lives in Australia, The NAB have hundreds of branches and are very easily contactable, I wonder why after the "HSBC" adviser opened this NAB account, he didn't rock on down and independently confirm the existence of the account and that he was the one able to access funds in it....

 

It is something I would certainly do if I were transferring $300K remotely....

 

 




wellygary
8320 posts

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  #3231896 17-May-2024 15:26
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Handle9:

 

AML/CFT is aleady a massive pain in the backside. 

 

 

+1000

 

It has to be the biggest box checking and data privacy hole in the Universe, 

 

We are constantly told to be careful with your ID documents, but if you want to shift more than a mousetrap you have to provide passports/drivers license and proof or address details,  

 

and then this is all kept by all the parties so they can show it DIA if they come knocking.... its a joke 

 

 


cddt
1553 posts

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  #3231897 17-May-2024 15:26
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Where the victim's story falls over here, is that he thought someone else had set up a NAB account for him under his name... given the difficulty in setting up a bank account under one's own name these days! 





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richms
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  #3231906 17-May-2024 15:58
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How do people this stupid have that much to lose just sitting in a bank account?





Richard rich.ms

Dingbatt
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  #3231915 17-May-2024 16:20
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Perhaps all of you that are making sneering comments about the stupidity of the victim could offer your obvious scam-buster skills (to interpol free of charge of course) to help find and prosecute the criminals?

 

Remember these ordinary people are up against expert criminals using sophisticated techniques. They are likely to have lost their retirement savings.





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


 
 
 

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Handsomedan
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  #3231919 17-May-2024 16:30
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Dingbatt:

 

Perhaps all of you that are making sneering comments about the stupidity of the victim could offer your obvious scam-buster skills (to interpol free of charge of course) to help find and prosecute the criminals?

 

Remember these ordinary people are up against expert criminals using sophisticated techniques. They are likely to have lost their retirement savings.

 

 

I don't see anyone sneering at the victim - what I do see is people rightly pointing outn that this is not the bank's fault and they should not therefore be tried in the court of public opinion. 

 

The losses that banks wear due to fraud are astronomical - when it's a situation like this, I simply can't feel anything for the press but loathing, as they are trying to stir up the sympathetic masses for a lynching of the big bad bank - I do feel for the victim, though. They thought they were going to be making a solid investment and were scammed. 

 

 

 

If you were holding $500 in your pocket and it fell out when you pulled out your keys, would you expect Levis to put you right? I'd expect not. 





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Handsome Dan needs to stop adding three dots to every sentence...

 

Handsome Dan does not currently have a side hustle as the mascot for Yale 

 

 

 

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Dingbatt
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  #3231930 17-May-2024 16:50
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Handsomedan:

 

I don't see anyone sneering at the victim

 

 

So you didn’t read the post just above mine then?

 

And for the record, I don’t think it is the bank’s responsibility. I just hate the harm these criminals are doing to people’s lives.





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


SATTV
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  #3231942 17-May-2024 17:36
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richms:

 

How do people this stupid have that much to lose just sitting in a bank account?

 

 

Do you have to be so patronising!

 

He possibly had an investment mature and was looking for another one and had the money in the bank waiting for the right one.

 

Hi biggest mistake was that he did not call HSBC on their published number to see if the person was who they said they were.

 

The bank can not see who's name is on the bank account locally ( this is coming this year I believe and if the names don't match it wont go through ) let alone internationally.

 

I dont think the bank is responsible in this case, it is on him. 

 

John





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  #3231984 17-May-2024 21:16
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SATTV:

 

richms:

 

How do people this stupid have that much to lose just sitting in a bank account?

 

 

Do you have to be so patronising!

 

He possibly had an investment mature and was looking for another one and had the money in the bank waiting for the right one.

 

Hi biggest mistake was that he did not call HSBC on their published number to see if the person was who they said they were.

 

The bank can not see who's name is on the bank account locally ( this is coming this year I believe and if the names don't match it wont go through ) let alone internationally.

 

I dont think the bank is responsible in this case, it is on him. 

 

John

 

 

Even when account names are visible to the bank it will only be for NZ accounts, overseas account names won't be visible. The victim lived in Australia, there is some personal responsibility involved.


eracode
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  #3232007 18-May-2024 04:30
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SATTV:

 

richms:

 

How do people this stupid have that much to lose just sitting in a bank account?

 

 

Do you have to be so patronising!

 

He possibly had an investment mature and was looking for another one and had the money in the bank waiting for the right one.

 

Hi biggest mistake was that he did not call HSBC on their published number to see if the person was who they said they were.

 

The bank can not see who's name is on the bank account locally ( this is coming this year I believe and if the names don't match it wont go through ) let alone internationally.

 

I dont think the bank is responsible in this case, it is on him. 

 

John

 

 

Totally agree with all of that. I had missed the fact, pointed out in a later post, that he lives in Australia. If he wanted to do this properly, maybe he could have first transferred the money from NZ to his bank account in Australia.

 

Given all the fact and circs, imo this is not down to Westpac. He was loose and is now looking for a scapegoat.





Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.


cddt
1553 posts

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  #3232272 19-May-2024 09:26
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SATTV:

 

Hi biggest mistake was that he did not call HSBC on their published number to see if the person was who they said they were.

 

 

I think his biggest mistake was that thinking a cold caller could possibly offer a legitimate investment. 





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  #3232434 19-May-2024 16:30
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I expect my bank to protect me from someone stealing my money. If I freely give it away then that’s on me.


chatterbox
204 posts

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  #3232488 19-May-2024 20:17
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My facebook account which I use for marketplace doesn't have my name on it but I let people transfer to my account and use the online account name.

 

Basically I've discovered that facebook and marketplace are a lot bigger draw card for scammers than other platforms in my experience. So giving details really bothers me from an identity fraud point of view. Although, not sure I should be that concerned these days given the number of data leaks from larger companies and the smaller loyalty programs one signs up for - I'm sure they don't have good security. 

 

Guess I'll need to tell people my proper name on the account for transfer of funds. 


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