CGA Part Deux

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553 posts

Ultimate Geek

#621363 8-May-2012 00:37

Right, so how about we do something about this flawed system instead of debating about which part is the most inadequate...?

*The following are my own personal opinions and are in no way to be taken as factually correct, it is however my view of the common sense approach that I believe should be applied to topics such as this, for the benefit of all tax paying citizens.

Here's how I see it;

Q: Whats the purpose of a warranty period?

A: To provide consumers with a gauge of product quality, by way of providing an expected product lifespan.

Q: Why do we even have this warranty period requirement?

A: To protect against poor value/quality products.

Not all TVs are equal - we get that, the one from the supermarket isnt likely to be as good as the Flagship model from a leading manafacturer. Now we need to know the quality of the product to determine the expected lifespan. Who better to get this info from than the ones that built it - the manafacture. They know the quality of the parts, they chose them for a reason such as quality and price - a compromise of these two items was chosen to give the desired 'value for money' to the manafacturer. Look at that 'value for investment' - the same thing consumers are looking for in the products they buy. Great, a common goal!

Q: How long should a product last?

A: Depends on the quality of the product.

Here is where it gets interesting... Currently we warranty products on a set time frame eg: Fridge -5years. The problem with this method is that the quantity of the warranty period is being presented in years.
That method is fine for a fridge as it's always on, electrical appliances are not. We need to measure the actual run time of the product - eureka! We have that! - Manafactures already have that feature built in to TVs!

Q: How do we measure the actual use of a product?

A: 'Run time' hour clock.

Q: How do we determine the expected lifespan of a product?

A: Have the manafacture provide the lifespan the product was designed (read: budgeted) for, presented in hours of 'run time'.

Add the those answers up and I believe we have much better system for determining the warranty period of a product, in this case - electronic goods.
Simple = Warranty period on TV's should be provided on 'hours of use', set by the manafacturer.

This benefits everybody;
- Consumers know the 'value' of the product they are paying for.
- Manafactures can choose the quality of their parts to a set lifespan.

What does everyone think of that?

We have a huge resource available to us -a nationwide public communication tool, the internet.
Which we can use to discuss the issues that matter to all members of society, or we can use it to debate the inadequacy of the current systems.

I'm not here to debate specifics, but I welcome anyone's thoughts on fixing the issues with the warranty system.
After all we have the technology to do so, so why not?

minimoke

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Ultimate Geek

#621624 8-May-2012 13:21

How long does a TV last? Well I'm about to list my 20+ year old Mitsubishe 26 incher on trade me as a museum piece. It has survived a cook straight crossing, 7 house moves and two earthquake tosses onto the floor and still goes fine. That said I wouldn't be turning up to the retailer and asking for anything under the CGA if it stopped. 10 years for a decent brand TV should be around the mark by my reckoning.

networkn

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#621629 8-May-2012 13:23

What did you pay for your TV 20 years ago may I ask?

Bung

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#621633 8-May-2012 13:31

My slightly older Mitsubishi lasted 10 years before it started a series of nuisance capacitor failures. At least they were repairable. Friends that have had new sets fail have usually ended up with a replacement. One was persuaded to contribute part of the cost of the replacement because the original warranty had expired. The insult was seeing the replacement on special shortly after at less than the amount she'd chipped in.

thecripplernz

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Ultimate Geek

#621635 8-May-2012 13:34

ouch, thats gotta sting.

I always avoid the flyers after making a big electronics purchase

tdgeek

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#621636 8-May-2012 13:39

networkn: What did you pay for your TV 20 years ago may I ask?

Sony Vega 34" and 85kg too. Great picture for a CRT, daughter has it, still working great, circa 1995

mattwnz

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#621641 8-May-2012 13:47

illicit: Right, so how about we do something about this flawed system instead of debating about which part is the most inadequate...?

*The following are my own personal opinions and are in no way to be taken as factually correct, it is however my view of the common sense approach that I believe should be applied to topics such as this, for the benefit of all tax paying citizens.

Here's how I see it;

Q: Whats the purpose of a warranty period?

A: To provide consumers with a gauge of product quality, by way of providing an expected product lifespan.

If that was the case you should expect to replace your TV every year. That would create so much waste. I think product warranties are more for businesses who purchase products, who are not covered by the CGA, but have no reflection on how long a product will last. Also in some cases the product warrenty may offer additional features that are not avaliable under the CGA.
I think the CGA is a great thing, as it gives consumers advantages over buying that same product from overseas, and means that NZ retailers can't just import rubbish products that they can stop supporting after the warrenty has run out. They have to stand behind those products that they sell. I think i works well in most cases, and certainly better than in the USA. In the US you usually have to pay extra for the protection we get from the CGA, in the form of extended warranties. We do pay more for our products in NZ, but we do get better coverage if something goes wrong.

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gregmcc

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#621696 8-May-2012 14:56

illicit: Right, so how about we do something about this flawed system instead of debating about which part is the most inadequate...?

*The following are my own personal opinions and are in no way to be taken as factually correct, it is however my view of the common sense approach that I believe should be applied to topics such as this, for the benefit of all tax paying citizens.

Here's how I see it;

Q: Whats the purpose of a warranty period?

A: To provide consumers with a gauge of product quality, by way of providing an expected product lifespan.

Q: Why do we even have this warranty period requirement?

A: To protect against poor value/quality products.

Not all TVs are equal - we get that, the one from the supermarket isnt likely to be as good as the Flagship model from a leading manafacturer. Now we need to know the quality of the product to determine the expected lifespan. Who better to get this info from than the ones that built it - the manafacture. They know the quality of the parts, they chose them for a reason such as quality and price - a compromise of these two items was chosen to give the desired 'value for money' to the manafacturer. Look at that 'value for investment' - the same thing consumers are looking for in the products they buy. Great, a common goal!

Q: How long should a product last?

A: Depends on the quality of the product.

Here is where it gets interesting... Currently we warranty products on a set time frame eg: Fridge -5years. The problem with this method is that the quantity of the warranty period is being presented in years.
That method is fine for a fridge as it's always on, electrical appliances are not. We need to measure the actual run time of the product - eureka! We have that! - Manafactures already have that feature built in to TVs!

Q: How do we measure the actual use of a product?

A: 'Run time' hour clock.

Q: How do we determine the expected lifespan of a product?

A: Have the manafacture provide the lifespan the product was designed (read: budgeted) for, presented in hours of 'run time'.

Add the those answers up and I believe we have much better system for determining the warranty period of a product, in this case - electronic goods.
Simple = Warranty period on TV's should be provided on 'hours of use', set by the manafacturer.

This benefits everybody;
- Consumers know the 'value' of the product they are paying for.
- Manafactures can choose the quality of their parts to a set lifespan.

What does everyone think of that?

We have a huge resource available to us -a nationwide public communication tool, the internet.
Which we can use to discuss the issues that matter to all members of society, or we can use it to debate the inadequacy of the current systems.

I'm not here to debate specifics, but I welcome anyone's thoughts on fixing the issues with the warranty system.
After all we have the technology to do so, so why not?

These are all valid questions, but when it comes down to it every manufacturer/retailer has a different way of arriving at each of those answers.

The CGA is a way of sorting out this, it is the law, and the manufactures and retailers are required to comply with the law, although there are no actual guide lines on how long things should last the only way to gauge this some guide published by someone who isn't a retailer or a manufacturer, in NZ that's the consumer institute, and that's what the disputes tribunal is going to look at.

If the retailer or the manufacturer isn't happy about this then maybe they shouldn't sell that range of products.

Remember compliance costs are a part of doing business, what about if the retailer decided that they didn't agree with the 15% GST and only wanted to to pay 10% GST. Do you think the IRD would say, 'it's the law, but hey 10% is ok' not a chance 15% is the law, pay now.

mattwnz

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#621704 8-May-2012 15:07

The other thing is some retails ( they tend to be the major ones) will undercut other retailers on price, and sometimes they will sell it as a loss leader on paper, just to get cusomters in the store and then hope to upsell them on things onther thind. The problem with this is that there can be no margin to cover them,should a customer have a problem with the original product they purchased. However ultimately it is the manufacturer that should have to cover the cost, so it really depends on the retailers relationship with their supplier, and whether they can get reimbursed for the cost of refunding under the CGA.

networkn

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#621706 8-May-2012 15:11

I tend to think that the manufacturer should have responsibility ultimately, though I understand the challenges this poses.

gregmcc

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#621708 8-May-2012 15:19

networkn: I tend to think that the manufacturer should have responsibility ultimately, though I understand the challenges this poses.

That would be great, but many manufactures don't want to deal with the public, hence this is where the retailers come in to the equation and add their mark up

mattwnz

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#621710 8-May-2012 15:28

networkn: I tend to think that the manufacturer should have responsibility ultimately, though I understand the challenges this poses.

The retailer is supposed to be the middleman. So under normal conditions the retailer shouldn't ever be out of pocket with a CGA claim. They should claim costs back from their supplier, or would get them back from the manufacturer. But I am not sure how well that works in reality and with paperwork etc

surfisup1000

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#621741 8-May-2012 16:01

I reckon a replacement is a fair outcome.

Certainly unfair on the shops behalf for a full refund since you've enjoyed 2 or 3 years of use.

thecripplernz

252 posts

Ultimate Geek

#621746 8-May-2012 16:12

I would definitely prefer a different brand of TV now.

I want to purchase in the city I now live in.

And if a replacement came from the manufacturer, then I would have no 'Face' should
something go wrong in the future.

I think these are all reasonable reasons for requesting a refund.

illicit

553 posts

Ultimate Geek

#621936 8-May-2012 22:05

mattwnz: If that was the case you should expect to replace your TV every year. That would create so much waste. I think product warranties are more for businesses who purchase products

That's exactly my point - the warranty system is 'one size fits all' - according to the current system, 95% of products you buy from a retailer are only made to last 12 months.

Why have it at all if its pointless? Why not just paste in the relevant sections from the CGA over top of the '12 month warranty' page in the manual?

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