4k televisions

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#900877 22-Sep-2013 21:59

I have a Sony 4K 65" TV recently and its pretty impressive.

Upscaling from SkyHD is pretty good (yes there are a few channels which are quite low bitrate) if I do say myself and does it better than a recent Onkyo AMP I have which also does 4K upscaling. Compared to my recent TV (52" LA52A620) Samsung its a much better picture.

It has HDMI 1.4 at the moment and software upgradable to HDMI 2.0 by the end of the year. The 4K Samsung upgrade from 1.4->2.0 will mean a hardware upgrade box thingy which will cost more $$ .

HDMI 1.4 works perfectly well for Movies at the moment (I have Timescapes 4K movie (www.timescapes.org) and its pretty impressive + lots of 4K content off youtube playing from a Computer. HDMI 2.0 will be needed if you want to play games on it over 30fps.

It does not come by default with a Camera and it can be added if you want to use Skype.

In the future 4K content will come across as H265 which gives better compression than the existing h264 at the moment and reduce bandwidth needed by about 40% in comparison.

Displayport in the past was the only want to get over 30fps to the TV but with HDMI 2.0 this changes lots of things. There are a number of 4K monitors around and computers see them a 2 * Monitors which the graphics cards can add together (as the existing chipsets for Displayport cannot handle the bandwidth for single 4K display). AMD and Nvidia drivers can now run these types of monitors ok ish but my TV via HDMI just sees it as a normal 4K TV so had no problems via HDMI.

But yes finally yes there is no real content except for the stuff above. The PS4 (and Xbox one I believe) can do HDMI 4K output on them when they come out and there are rumours Sony will release their 4K Media Service on it (if it comes to NZ it is unknown) instead of having to have the Sony 4K Media Box (not available outside the US)

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#900969 23-Sep-2013 08:18

mattwnz:

If setting up a home network, what would be the best home network wiring to take 4k transmissions? Is cat 6 or cat 6a enough?

You can currently stream 4k video at about 50Mbps (using h264). When h265 is ratified this will probably drop to about 30 - 35Mbps. So even doddery old Fast Ethernet (and most decent wifi n/ac solutions) is more than capable. Of course, if you want to stream uncompressed 4K, that requirement skyrockets and even GigE won't cope (and depending on framerate and bitdepth, 10GigE might not either).

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#901164 23-Sep-2013 12:36

surfisup1000:
DarthKermit:
I think the Sammy was going for 8 grand.

2 years time they'll be under 1k (hoping).

The issue is the lack of 4k source and transmission chain upgrades -- the cost of going from SD to HD was huge -- I'm not sure people are ready to pay all that money again -- new cables, new tv's , new satellites , new Settop boxes and so on. Heres hoping 10 meters of in wall hdmi can be upgraded.

I wonder if 4k might see off the end of traditional TV.

I think the big cost for HD was they also needed to move from analogue to digital at the same time. Now the infrastructure is there I suspect it will be slightly cheaper, especially in the cross-over market from big screen films to TV. There are lots of devices appearing on the market. Even my little camera manages 4k (although at 15fps).

Still, I suspect some countries will have issues and come up with a 2k standard and call it SuperHD, just like some call 720p HD.

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timmmay

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#901182 23-Sep-2013 13:00

richms: Hmm, It has an inbuilt camera which I do not want in any TV I buy.

I'd love a TV with Skype built in, that could be a big selling point when I upgrade my TV.

BlueShift

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#901196 23-Sep-2013 13:15

richms: Well looking at samsungs track record of insecurity in their smart televisions, that isnt something I would count on.

The only reason I even have my TV allowed on the internet is that its inbuilt youtube player is by far the best picture quality compared to anything I have tried feeding into the hdmi port of it. Its a no camera model which I made sure of when I bought it.

Half an inch of black duct tape makes the camera optional.

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#901255 23-Sep-2013 14:35

But yes finally yes there is no real content except for the stuff above. The PS4 (and Xbox one I believe) can do HDMI 4K output on them when they come out and there are rumours Sony will release their 4K Media Service on it (if it comes to NZ it is unknown) instead of having to have the Sony 4K Media Box (not available outside the US)

LennonNZ - If you went to this expense, did you consider getting one of the Sony Media boxes? Amazon sell them and with the upcoming 4K service from Sony over the Internet, it is a good (and probably the only one in the near term) option. Mind you, if you are a gamer 4K would be awesome! However have you seen the comments on the interwebs about 4K in gaming with ATI cards? Look on www.techreport.com

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#901307 23-Sep-2013 16:00

Yes I did but asked Sony regarding this and they really couldn't answer me regarding this.

In the USA using the Sony Media Boxes need a hardware upgrade for the TV (HDCP upgrade to be extra secure) which is not available in NZ.

See https://www.4kactivation.com regarding this..

I am hopeful with the PS4 coming out with this service as well on it as it can do 4K.

The Article on techreport talks about the existing 4K Monitors which use dual HDMI or Displayport with the computer seeing them as 2 Monitors and adding them together to give 4K to get over 30FPS (HDMI 1.4 limitation). The Sony TV has HDMI only and software upgradable to HDMI 2.0 in the near future so this will be moot soon as newer Monitors will have HDMI 2.0 in the future as well.

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#901317 23-Sep-2013 16:09

Half an inch of black duct tape makes the camera optional.

for those of us under 50 years old . . .

half inch = 1.3cm

LennonNZ

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#902040 24-Sep-2013 19:50

I just checked with Sony again (US) about the FMPX1 and they said...

"I apologize that it works only with XBR model eventhough your TV model is similar to that"

So 4K Media Player...

http://www.red.com/products/redray - Expensive and you have to convert your content to play on it
http://www.nuvola4k.com - Not Shipping and they can give no ETA if/when they will ship

These are all HDMI 1.4 only (and not upgradable to HDMI 2.0)

And Content..

http://www.nuvola4k.com - says they have 4K content in the future but when I asked they cannot tell me what it is.
http://odemax.com - closed Beta at the moment.
http://www.youtube.com - Limited number of 4K demo reels.
http://timescapes.org - If you like this type of thing..

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#902407 25-Sep-2013 12:59

timmmay:
richms: Hmm, It has an inbuilt camera which I do not want in any TV I buy.

I'd love a TV with Skype built in, that could be a big selling point when I upgrade my TV.

Pretty much any TV from the big name manufacturers will support an external USB camera. Of course, they will only support their _own_ USB camera. I got one for my new Samsung TV for $70ish from memory, and it works very well. In cases of paranoia, just unplug it when Skype isn't being used.

Skype itself is still pretty awful (horribly outdated codecs), but I don't see them implementing Google Hangouts which is about the only real "open" consumer alternative I think. It's usually adequate though. But I digress...

I had a look at the 4K unit in the Sony shop here, and they _still_ haven't fixed the slight horizontal-panning judder that virtually all LCD\Plasma screens seem to suffer from. Hopefully it's just configuration in this instance. I also didn't like the fact that it came with some quite large speakers built into the side of it which looked pretty ugly.

Can't say I thought that it looked any better than 1080p given that the screen was "only" the 55" though. I certainly wouldn't bother with 4K on a screen that "small".

Would love to see if their Simulview glasses work on the Samsung, I suspect not. Would be a useful feature.

I also laughed at their "exclusive" magnetic-fluid speakers, ferro-fluids have been used in speakers for a couple of decades.

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#902415 25-Sep-2013 13:11

stevenz:
Pretty much any TV from the big name manufacturers will support an external USB camera. Of course, they will only support their _own_ USB camera. I got one for my new Samsung TV for $70ish from memory, and it works very well. In cases of paranoia, just unplug it when Skype isn't being used.

Skype itself is still pretty awful (horribly outdated codecs), but I don't see them implementing Google Hangouts which is about the only real "open" consumer alternative I think. It's usually adequate though. But I digress...

Interesting. My 55" Samsung LCD is a smart TV, around 2 years old, has USB ports, and runs apps, but I haven't seen Skype available for it - but I haven't looked either. I'd pay $70 to add a camera to my TV to make it do Skype.

LennonNZ

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#902417 25-Sep-2013 13:12

I guess you mean tearing. I don't notice it at all. Maybe it was the thing which was playing the video which caused it.

Sony are releasing a slightly different version
Soon without the speakers but it's a different display and you have to use active 3d glasses with it

TwoSeven

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#902424 25-Sep-2013 13:17

I don't really bother with apps on the TV - cant see the point in it. For Skype I have a Logitech HD thingy that plugs into the HDMI port. For everything else I have a windows PC plugged in (but am considering changing this to an Intel NUC).

I think the main issue is that the smart TV market is still in its infancy and the manufacturers are all competing with each other and using proprietry standards and licensing deals to stop competitors having the similar apps. Until they standardise on a TV OS and a set of apps that are universal to all TVs - it is pretty much pointless (where I think perhaps Microsoft might be on to something with their Xbox one).

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surfisup1000

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#902444 25-Sep-2013 13:50

richms: Hmm, It has an inbuilt camera which I do not want in any TV I buy.

Agreed, i don't ever want a camera in my tv -- unless there is a physical switch that disables the circuitry.

Software switches are no good.

stevenz

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#902484 25-Sep-2013 14:47

timmmay:
stevenz:
Pretty much any TV from the big name manufacturers will support an external USB camera. Of course, they will only support their _own_ USB camera. I got one for my new Samsung TV for $70ish from memory, and it works very well. In cases of paranoia, just unplug it when Skype isn't being used.

Skype itself is still pretty awful (horribly outdated codecs), but I don't see them implementing Google Hangouts which is about the only real "open" consumer alternative I think. It's usually adequate though. But I digress...

Interesting. My 55" Samsung LCD is a smart TV, around 2 years old, has USB ports, and runs apps, but I haven't seen Skype available for it - but I haven't looked either. I'd pay $70 to add a camera to my TV to make it do Skype.

As long as it's internet enabled and 2011 or newer, then I believe you can get Skype onto it.

Failing all else, Logitech also make an all-in-one Skype unit with HDMI output for $250.

LennonNZ:
I guess you mean tearing. I don't notice it at all. Maybe it was the thing which was playing the video which caused it.

Not really tearing, it's when material that pans smoothly, but quickly in a near-perfectly horizontal fashion seems to suddenly jump very slightly. You're right though, it may not have been the TVs fault. If they're demoing high-end gear then I would've thought it'd behoove them to configure it in the most showoffish way possible though.

@KnightNZ

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