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richms
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  #88534 28-Sep-2007 15:59
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cyril7: I dont believe that the philips one you saw support mpeg4, HN was flogging these up untill a couple of months ago, they are only mpeg2 capable.

On the note of 720p, its not just the 720 aspect, but the more important thing is the p. Pretty much Universally broadcasters do HD as 1080i, this is recognised by broadcasters as the "common image format", the use of 720p50 or 720p60 may well be taken up by broadcasters for sports, however 1080i is what most material is generated in and distributed as. However the ability of most domestic digital displays to successfully deinterlace a 1080i source (as they must as they are progressive by nature) is a real problem. Some do quite well at it, others not, a good deinterlacer costs a fair bit of money, professional ones more than your average german touring car, and even higher priced domestic displays struggle with deinterlacing 576i let alone 1080i. Therefore by moving the deinterlacing back to the broadcasters means that that aspect is not handled by the consumers display, this is very important.

Cyril


Yeah, lots of deinterlacers fail the film mode tests, and since that is what 24p stuff needs to deinterlace with for best results, thats a real shame.

Hopefully there is support in the specs for transmitting 1080p24, but I have a feeling we will be stuck with this 50Hz abomination for good thanks to the need to output pal easily.




Richard rich.ms



allstarnz

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  #88537 28-Sep-2007 16:17
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lchiu7: So something like a Hauppauge HVR-3000? Looks like I might have to upgrade my PC though since it's no where near a X2 4000 :-(


yeah, i have one of those, as well as a HVR1300 (DVB-T + analogue)

Zippity
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  #88566 28-Sep-2007 19:08
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Will my existing Sky Decoder and dish allow me to receive, view and record HDTV on my Sony Bravia X series and RD-HX820 DVD Recorder?





burtz
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  #88567 28-Sep-2007 19:35
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Asking a question like that shows you haven't even bothered to look at the links in this thread.

Will it be on SKY?
No.

Zippity
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#88568 28-Sep-2007 19:45
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Oh, so now you want me to read the links to find the answer.

Thanks for your kind assistance FrownFrown

And silly me thought that this forum was for asking and receiving answers.

Guess I wasted my time posting, huh?

Spyware
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  #88570 28-Sep-2007 19:56
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Zippity: Will my existing Sky Decoder and dish allow me to receive, view and record HDTV on my Sony Bravia X series and RD-HX820 DVD Recorder?


Current Sky decoders are DVB-S mpeg2 only. HD satellite services will be DVB-S2 h264 so a new decoder will be required. If and when Sky introduce HD it is unlikely that they will transmit free to air channels available in HD on DVB-T h264 (digital terrestrial) in HD on their satellite platform for a very very long time as the spare bandwidth simply doesn't exist.

Your DVD recorder only records SD but could record the standard definition analog signal output from an HD decoder.




Spark Max Fibre using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+, CRS125-24G-1S, Unifi UAP, U6-Pro, UAP-AC-M-Pro, Apple TV 4K (2022), Apple TV 4K (2017), iPad Air 1st gen, iPad Air 4th gen, iPhone 13, SkyNZ3151 (the white box). If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.


Zippity
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  #88573 28-Sep-2007 20:32
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Thanks Ross.

Your comments are very much appreciated.

 
 
 

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).
macuser
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  #88589 28-Sep-2007 22:02
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Lets not forget that 720p is not supported by early CRT HD tv's :-P, Thats why most don't go with that resolution.  I think they would rather people seeing HD badly(Bad tv deinterlace - that most people won't notice I doubt!)  than no HD at all (with 720p on a early CRT HD TV).  Also 720p is a much later standard than 1080i, I also think (I think!) that SD scales much beter over 1080p/i than 720p.

My 10c

richms
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  #88595 28-Sep-2007 22:58
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I would be very surprised if the STB cant convert to 1080i if needed, also most CRTs that only take 1080i are 4:3, so will have the same problems that they have with current broadcasts when set to widescreen on sky/freeview. All the widescreens I have seen have being quite happy taking 1080i or 720p and process it to their own resolution internally.


Edit - and I think if you get specs, that the number of flat panel displays will be many many times that of 1080i capable CRT's - Im the only person I know with one, and thats because it was swapped out when my old one couldnt be fixed, whereas about half the people I know would have a HD capable flat panel of some type.  




Richard rich.ms

openmedia
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  #88599 28-Sep-2007 23:35
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macuser: Lets not forget that 720p is not supported by early CRT HD tv's :-P, Thats why most don't go with that resolution. I think they would rather people seeing HD badly(Bad tv deinterlace - that most people won't notice I doubt!) than no HD at all (with 720p on a early CRT HD TV). Also 720p is a much later standard than 1080i, I also think (I think!) that SD scales much beter over 1080p/i than 720p.

My 10c


There are so few CRT HDTVs in NZ i doubt they worry.

There is probably more issue with all of the 480p Plasma and LCD units currently out there on which the picture won't actually be HD




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.


cyril7
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  #88606 29-Sep-2007 07:07
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There is probably more issue with all of the 480p Plasma and LCD units currently out there on which the picture won't actually be HD


WOT!, but the man at Hardly Normal assured me, and they know what there talking about!

Cyril :)

sbiddle
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  #88607 29-Sep-2007 07:09
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openmedia:
macuser: Lets not forget that 720p is not supported by early CRT HD tv's :-P, Thats why most don't go with that resolution. I think they would rather people seeing HD badly(Bad tv deinterlace - that most people won't notice I doubt!) than no HD at all (with 720p on a early CRT HD TV). Also 720p is a much later standard than 1080i, I also think (I think!) that SD scales much beter over 1080p/i than 720p.

My 10c


There are so few CRT HDTVs in NZ i doubt they worry.

There is probably more issue with all of the 480p Plasma and LCD units currently out there on which the picture won't actually be HD


And I'm sure there will have to be at least one idiot who gets media attention because they spend $x on a 852x480 Plasma because they were under the impression it was HD simply because it was a flat screen or were told incorrectly by a salesperson that it was.

I'm still amazed how little knowledge there is in the retail industry about Freeview and HDTV. I was looking around for a new amp a few weeks ago and started speaking to a guy in a big chain store who told me that Sky would be transmitting everything in HD and that they'd be having cheap DVB-T STB's because they'd just bring the $59 boxes over from Australia. He was completely ignorant to me telling him they wouldn't work since NZ was MPEG4 vs the MPEG2 in Australia.




ZiglioNZ
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  #88681 29-Sep-2007 23:00
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Wonderful news! that puts NZ ahead after lagging for so long behind

Good comments from you guys above.
I agree with who said that putting any sort of processing like deinterlacing on the broadcaster side would improve the quality of viewing for many.
I just hope sports events, like any other fast moving events, are encoded as progressive to start with.

DS9

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  #88695 30-Sep-2007 09:20
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Hi, I would not say "ahead" the US and Canada have had HD for 7-8 years and Europe for 3-4 years, it just means we will have caught up after 5 years lagging behind the nearest, unless you judge our Tech by Brazil etc. The good thing for us is that HD is becoming standard so we will then be on an even keel. Still I have lived in the UK and Canada and they both use 1080i except the US feeds in Canada somtimes it comes through 720p. Which is known as HD lite over there. Some of my friends have even seen test signals of 720i from the US, they believe is why DirecTV are saying they will have 100 HD channels.




I aim to misbehave.


cyril7
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  #88699 30-Sep-2007 10:06
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Darren, the Europeans are starting to use 720p in quite a few HD services, the BBC has indicated that it will be using 720p rather than 1080i as a final transmission distribution standard rather than 1080i (which will still be the normal in house frame size) due to the deinterlacing issue as previously mentioned, and because 720p does allow better compression efficiency and from extensive tests done by the BBC they found that on screens upto 55" only a very small sample of test groups could see a resolution increase, and when they did could not statistically reproduce a clear advantage.

Expect to see 720p feature more and more in future worldwide. As of around 18months ago camera manufacturers started to deliver 720p50/60 capable cameras (till around then few existed), thus we can also expect more sports to be captured in this format. SkyUK is using 720p as its normal format for SkySportsHD.

Cyril

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