HDMI cables for 4K HDR longer than 2m

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Talkiet

4792 posts

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#2138948 3-Dec-2018 23:37

Masterpiece: I've tested with my HDMI cable test kit a number of the cables that appear limited (as listed by the OP) and found all pass data tests up to 18Gbps.

Generally I've only found problems at the 10m+ cables and those only ever rated as "10.2Gbps"

However, I have have already commented here at Geekzone on other threads about those with gaming setups wishing to drive 50/60hz refresh rates. I suspect you may well be forced to run 8bit if you want 2160p60 and also 4:2:0
Trying to drive 4:4:4 or RGB you are forced to 8bit, at 10/12bit 4:2:2 or 4:2:0

In all reality if one thing fails to comply with the display input you will glitch and even blank out.
This is one of the problems with TV's being used as gaming displays.

I'd also check the panel HDMI ports, in some cases some are full HDMI 2.0a/b and some HDMI 1.4 and some designed for gaming. So check your specs.

Absolutely sounds like you might be in a position to provide some expert advice about what cables might live up to the claims... (hint hint, nudge nudge!)

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Paul1977

5042 posts

Uber Geek

#2139019 4-Dec-2018 09:50

Masterpiece: I've tested with my HDMI cable test kit a number of the cables that appear limited (as listed by the OP) and found all pass data tests up to 18Gbps.

Generally I've only found problems at the 10m+ cables and those only ever rated as "10.2Gbps"

However, I have have already commented here at Geekzone on other threads about those with gaming setups wishing to drive 50/60hz refresh rates. I suspect you may well be forced to run 8bit if you want 2160p60 and also 4:2:0
Trying to drive 4:4:4 or RGB you are forced to 8bit, at 10/12bit 4:2:2 or 4:2:0

In all reality if one thing fails to comply with the display input you will glitch and even blank out.
This is one of the problems with TV's being used as gaming displays.

I'd also check the panel HDMI ports, in some cases some are full HDMI 2.0a/b and some HDMI 1.4 and some designed for gaming. So check your specs.

@Masterpiece I don't have a test kit or anything, I'm only going by what worked and what didn't - and of the selection of 3m and 4m cables I tried most had problems. What I do know is that with the cables I am using now the Xbox has green ticks across the board under the 4K section, while the PS4 Pro video section just list everything it will work with and I think it lists up to 4K 60Hz 12-bit. And am now not experiencing any momentary glitches on either device. I don't have screen shots and aren't at home to look right now, but I don't think either of them mention chroma subsampling at all though.

If a 4m cable passes all tests up to 18Gbps, the same as a 2m cable - in practice should I get the same performance out of the cables?

I don't fully understand chroma subsampling, but when Googling it I found my LG C8 TV supports 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 on all ports - but no mention of what bit-depth it supports that at that level. And I'm having trouble finding a definitive answer about what the Xbox One S/X and PS4 Pro actually output.

As far as using a TV as a gaming display... isn't that what Xbox One and PS4 are designed to be used with?

I second @Talkiet. Are you in a position to advise what the best cables are, and where to get them? I think I'm OK at the moment, but would be good to know for the future.

I don't know how the average user is meant to get there head around all this!

Thanks

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#2139041 4-Dec-2018 10:06

Paul1977:

If a 4m cable passes all tests up to 18Gbps, the same as a 2m cable - in practice should I get the same performance out of the cables?

You'd think so. 18Gbps allows for 4k 60p hdr 4:4:4. But the cable must have passed an actual test as manufacturer specs are all fairy tales on many cables .

As far as using a TV as a gaming display... isn't that what Xbox One and PS4 are designed to be used with?

Yes, but, he was saying that some TV's have different HDMI support on different ports. A TV is fine as long as the port you are using supports 18gpbs.

I second @Talkiet. Are you in a position to advise what the best cables are, and where to get them?

This has been asked many times, and only once has someone mentioned a specific cable that actually works (ruipro). Maybe people are reluctant to recommend products which may not work for others?

Of the cables I've been researching, ruipro is the most recommended 'budget' ($250nzd for 20m?) longer cable that actually works. Of course, you can probably spend $500+ from a local AV store and they will be OK as you will get good support.

I don't know how the average user is meant to get there head around all this!

Yep, it is the wild west for longer hdmi cables. The best place to look are on the avforums.

SpartanVXL

1307 posts

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#2139049 4-Dec-2018 10:14

From what I recall, you cannot do higher than 8bit 4k 60Hz 4:4:4 on hdmi 2.0. If you want 10bit or higher you need to lower to 4:2:2 or wait for hdmi 2.1 (or switch to Displayport on a PC). 10bit requires greater than 18Gbps.

This also means ps4 pro (and xbox i'm sure) cannot ever do full hdr 10bit at 4:4:4.

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#2139053 4-Dec-2018 10:18

SpartanVXL: From what I recall, you cannot do higher than 8bit 4k 60Hz 4:4:4 on hdmi 2.0. If you want 10bit or higher you need to lower to 4:2:2 or wait for hdmi 2.1 (or switch to Displayport on a PC). 10bit requires greater than 18Gbps. This also means ps4 pro (and xbox i'm sure) cannot ever do full hdr 10bit at 4:4:4.

My novice understanding of such things, is that the bit rate is more important for editing than actual viewing. But for viewing perfect colour gradients, yes, 10bit is better.

JaBZ

404 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2139061 4-Dec-2018 10:29

I've talked about it before however it appears the situation is still the same a few years on.

Only look for cables that are HDMI Premium certified.

https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/premiumcable/Premium_HDMI_Cable_Certification_Program.aspx

Personally I have imported a number of the Monoprice Certified premium 4K cables in all lengths, and haven't had any trouble with them.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427

For anything 10M+ I'd only go for the fibre optic cables, I'm currently using a 12m Ruipro fibre optic cable for 18Gbps 4K.

My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..

Paul1977

5042 posts

Uber Geek

#2139125 4-Dec-2018 10:52

Thanks for the replies. I had heard about "HDMI Premium Certified" cables, but don't know that I've ever seen any (not where I normally buy cables anyway).

Just found this handy bandwidth calculator (although it omits an option for 4:2:2) which shows pretty clearly that 4K 60Hz 10-bit 4:4:4 would require over 22Gbps so @SpartanVXL is correct. I guess that won't be a thing until we start seeing HDMI 2.1 devices.

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SpartanVXL

1307 posts

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#2139262 4-Dec-2018 14:22

Paul1977:
Thanks for the replies. I had heard about "HDMI Premium Certified" cables, but don't know that I've ever seen any (not where I normally buy cables anyway).

Just found this handy bandwidth calculator (although it omits an option for 4:2:2) which shows pretty clearly that 4K 60Hz 10-bit 4:4:4 would require over 22Gbps so @SpartanVXL is correct. I guess that won't be a thing until we start seeing HDMI 2.1 devices.

It's a thing with Displayport 1.3 and PC gaming. Displayport 1.4 even does 4k 8bit 120Hz 4:4:4 or 10bit at 98-100Hz. It'll be interesting to see if next gen consoles get hdmi 2.1 or not. So far nobody has made them yet.

Masterpiece

247 posts

Master Geek

#2139432 4-Dec-2018 21:44

Just so you know I have a Murideo Six-G Video generator and Six-A video test kit. It does bit count tests up to 18Gbps looking for errors and is a simplified test compared to a Tektronix test suite with an eye diagram, a quite expensive setup.

However the murideo kit isn't cheap either and is comprehensive enough to problem solve and verify whether a cable can at least pass something.

When it comes to clients wall installs and connections, even brand new I have found many top out at 10.2GBps.
Which means setting devices to 24Hz rates, which is actually the best for video, movies etc. This is where my comment about gaming and TV's as displays. Users ALWAYS want 50/60hz, RGB, 4K HDR, this can break systems quickly if they haven't done their homework with their setup.

Really the only way to achieve this is to have devices position close to the display and if longer connections purchase active type cables. Some say items such as HDfury's and or HDMI 2.0a/b rated distribution devices help weak cabling and weak source devices.

One of the main problems here is isolating which item isn't working when you can have a simple and or complicated set of devices daisy chained like noodle soup.

Earth loops can break your video signals and cause all sorts of problems, many times you won't even know you have one. Sometimes identified when hot plugging and you get a spark. In many cases the system will cope once plugged in, but you cannot hot plug, you need to turn off all wall power, plug all the devices in then power everything up. I have a video processor that caused a earth loop, found 110v floating between devices, no real current, partly solved by replacing the non earthed PSU with a earthed type. I had to reload the AV unit's firmware as it got messed up by the spike.
So something to test, turn off all power to devices, let all trace power fade away, unplug everything, re-plug including all links, sound and HDMI. Then power up.

Something to be aware of with cables, is that it may not be a cable problem. Devices can overload short cables and other inputs attempting to cover themselves with not enough signal, this is difficult to test for except trying a 2~4m cable if a 1~2m cable doesn't work. Then in reverse, some devices will only work on shorter lengths, and then you didn't read the device specs, fine print which states limitations you didn't realize.

One main problem with gaming devices has been limited output settings, that alone can make it a make or break situation. Having all the video settings, such as Hz rate, bit depth, chroma sampling can make all the difference.

Me:"I'm not a robot!"

ET: "Maybe; you have some freewill, but you chose your path by arrangement"

Me "That sounds like a program with no freewill?"

ET: "We will catch up when you end this cycle"

Me: "Sounds like a 'KPI'!"

ET: "Did you read the terms and conditions?"

Me: .....

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