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fe31nz
1232 posts

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  #2678891 23-Mar-2021 01:09
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The problem you run up against with video capture devices available at reasonable prices is that they all seem to have onboard conversion of the video data to a compressed format, and no option to turn that off.  And they do that compression much worse than you can do for yourself.

 

The proper way to convert a VHS tape for posterity is to use a capture card that has the option to provide you with raw video (completely uncompressed).  You record that to disk, typically needing about 1.1 Gibytes per minute of tape.  I used to do this using freeware called VirtualDub, which also allowed you to do lossless compression using the Huffyuv codec, which reduced the disk space needed by 20% or so.  Then once you have a good capture, you then use the various freely available software such as ffmpeg to convert the raw video to a compressed format.  H.265 is the best format now, and the new AV1 format is even better but not finalised yet.  But you also need to consider what devices you are going to play it back on - H.265 format is no good if you need to play it on your TV and it does not support H.265.  Almost everything now supports H.264, so that is a good default option.  When you do the conversion, do not just use whatever default settings your software uses.  For most conversions, you really want to do two pass encoding, for example, and the defaults almost always are for one pass.  With two passes, the first pass reads all the video data and makes notes about what it is doing in each frame.  The second pass does the actual conversion, and it gets to look ahead in the first pass data to see what is coming in the future and to optimise its compression using that information.  This makes for a much higher quality result using the same number of bits as a one pass conversion.  Or you can choose to have a smaller file with the same quality as the one pass conversion.  Or some setting in between.  You also need to set the codec you are using to one of its high settings.  H.264 has lots of levels you can tell it to convert at, and the higher the level, the more features of the H.264 standard it will use for the compression, resulting in higher quality in fewer bits.  But the default level an H.264 codec will use is for maximum compatibility, and is usually one of the two lowest levels.

 

But being able to do a proper capture like that depends on finding a capture card that will do raw capture, and I have not seen any recently that are anything other than professional prices.

 

You also really should use an S-VHS VCR as the source playing the tape.  Even if the tape itself is VHS.  VHS VCRs typically lose a significant amount of the data that is actually on a VHS tape when they play it back, due to the low bandwidth used.  The recording on the tape is usually better quality than you will ever have seen it if you have only had a VHS VCR play it.  S-VHS VCRs typically open up the bandwidth so that for both VHS and S-VHS recordings, you get all of what is on the tape.  But that also means that you want an S-Video capable capture device.




Rikkitic
Awrrr
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  #2679006 23-Mar-2021 09:23
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That seems like a lot of overkill for what are probably just some home videos. In the distant past I converted several tapes using cheap devices like EasyCap and I couldn't perceive any quality difference between the tape on the VCR and the converted file. Most VHS recordings are not particularly high quality to begin with.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


Psilan
856 posts

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  #2679232 23-Mar-2021 12:46
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I need this as well. Just have 1 long video of Wellington and Seatoun from 1986.

 

It's mostly me flashing my underwear at the camera.





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quickymart

13963 posts

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  #2679491 23-Mar-2021 19:46
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fe31nz:

 

The problem you run up against with video capture devices available at reasonable prices is that they all seem to have onboard conversion of the video data to a compressed format, and no option to turn that off.  And they do that compression much worse than you can do for yourself.

 

The proper way to convert a VHS tape for posterity is to use a capture card that has the option to provide you with raw video (completely uncompressed).  You record that to disk, typically needing about 1.1 Gibytes per minute of tape.  I used to do this using freeware called VirtualDub, which also allowed you to do lossless compression using the Huffyuv codec, which reduced the disk space needed by 20% or so.  Then once you have a good capture, you then use the various freely available software such as ffmpeg to convert the raw video to a compressed format.  H.265 is the best format now, and the new AV1 format is even better but not finalised yet.  But you also need to consider what devices you are going to play it back on - H.265 format is no good if you need to play it on your TV and it does not support H.265.  Almost everything now supports H.264, so that is a good default option.  When you do the conversion, do not just use whatever default settings your software uses.  For most conversions, you really want to do two pass encoding, for example, and the defaults almost always are for one pass.  With two passes, the first pass reads all the video data and makes notes about what it is doing in each frame.  The second pass does the actual conversion, and it gets to look ahead in the first pass data to see what is coming in the future and to optimise its compression using that information.  This makes for a much higher quality result using the same number of bits as a one pass conversion.  Or you can choose to have a smaller file with the same quality as the one pass conversion.  Or some setting in between.  You also need to set the codec you are using to one of its high settings.  H.264 has lots of levels you can tell it to convert at, and the higher the level, the more features of the H.264 standard it will use for the compression, resulting in higher quality in fewer bits.  But the default level an H.264 codec will use is for maximum compatibility, and is usually one of the two lowest levels.

 

But being able to do a proper capture like that depends on finding a capture card that will do raw capture, and I have not seen any recently that are anything other than professional prices.

 

You also really should use an S-VHS VCR as the source playing the tape.  Even if the tape itself is VHS.  VHS VCRs typically lose a significant amount of the data that is actually on a VHS tape when they play it back, due to the low bandwidth used.  The recording on the tape is usually better quality than you will ever have seen it if you have only had a VHS VCR play it.  S-VHS VCRs typically open up the bandwidth so that for both VHS and S-VHS recordings, you get all of what is on the tape.  But that also means that you want an S-Video capable capture device.

 

 

Thanks, but those devices are way above the budget I had in mind for this project, and the videotapes I'm looking at converting aren't exactly top-quality picture anyway.


Yabanize
2350 posts

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  #2679498 23-Mar-2021 19:58
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YouTube - Technology Connections: The Best Easy Way to Capture Analog Video (it's a little weird)

 

Basically he does some experiments and comparisons, and the best result he's able to get is by using the combination of a Composite to HDMI converter (with upscaling) and an HDMI capture device (the one he had recorded direct to a USB flash drive without the need for a computer) but he says you could use any HDMI capture device.


gareth41
742 posts

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  #2679514 23-Mar-2021 20:47
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Very interesting... After watching that YouTube video, I would use an HDMI capture device and dump the raw data stream to hard disk, then later encode using ffmpeg H265.  720p is all you need, I wouldn't bother with 1080p for upscaling from VHS.  With ffmpeg use preset slow and a constant rate factor of between 16 and 18 - the encoding process will take a considerable amount of time, but the quality will be very good - especially in high motion scenes.


quickymart

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  #2680021 24-Mar-2021 21:15
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VCR acquired, now I just need to test it out. After that I'll source a (decent) dongle and try my luck.

 

The project continues!


 
 
 

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Jaxson
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  #2680099 24-Mar-2021 23:07
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Keep us in the loop with progress. I’m about to do the same.
In the past I’ve done this using my Panasonic DV handicam as an intermediary device, feeding analogue VCR output into camera and FireWire out to the PC. Hard to find a computer with FireWire onboard nowadays though.

quickymart

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  #2680102 24-Mar-2021 23:20
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openmedia
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  #2680133 25-Mar-2021 08:32
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I recommend capturing in a RAW or Huffyuv if possible. If the card is MPEG2 then capture at as high a bit rate as possible.

 

If you're converting to H.264 or H.265 consider running a high quality de-interlacer as it can make a huge difference with playback, perhaps with a bit of de-noise to tidy things up a bit.





Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.


quickymart

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  #3259538 14-Jul-2024 22:23
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Long time thread bump, something to distract after all the events today.

 

I dug out a couple of old video tapes I'd like to convert. However a lot of them are from the late 1990s and a few are even mouldy. I have a VHS and have no qualms about using it to play them to convert to a digital format, but I'm still on the hunt for a reasonably priced dongle.

 

My mother also has an old VHS tape that is really mouldy that she would love to covert as it features a few now-deceased family members. However I've read it would be bad to just play it as the mould could kill the VCR.

 

In any case, I was looking at this: 

 

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/ADPSTT4889832/StarTech-SVID2USB232-USB-Video-Capture-Adapter-Cab?qr=GShopping&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhYed7pClhwMVuqZmAh35ZQQPEAQYAiABEgL5hPD_BwE

 

Anyone used any of these or have any thoughts on if it would be any good? Note that the videos I'm hoping to convert aren't exactly HD, so I wouldn't be looking to upgrade them to 4K or anything like this 😀


Spyware
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  #3259552 15-Jul-2024 06:51
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Mouldy VHS should be deposited in bin.





Spark Max Fibre using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+, CRS125-24G-1S, Unifi UAP, U6-Pro, UAP-AC-M-Pro, Apple TV 4K (2022), Apple TV 4K (2017), iPad Air 1st gen, iPad Air 4th gen, iPhone 13, SkyNZ3151 (the white box). If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.


Jaxson
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  #3259580 15-Jul-2024 09:42
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Jaxson: Keep us in the loop with progress. I’m about to do the same.
In the past I’ve done this using my Panasonic DV handicam as an intermediary device, feeding analogue VCR output into camera and FireWire out to the PC. Hard to find a computer with FireWire onboard nowadays though.


Looping back on this I purchased a firewire card and that should take care of getting my DV handicam into the PC.

However I've now discovered adobe has dropped all capture support in premiere pro since the last 2-3 years versions.  Was not expecting that.
Understand it's not used my many at all, but video archivists are not happy.  Opting now to use a very old basic standalone DV capture software app and will see how that goes.
community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-ideas/bring-back-video-capture/idc-p/14210064

All of this is to digitize both miniDV tapes but also because it lets me pass any analogue signal into the DV handicam input and on into the PC for capture.  Is a nice gateway option for me.


quickymart

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  #3259658 15-Jul-2024 11:53
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Spyware:

 

Mouldy VHS should be deposited in bin.

 

 

For sure, but there must be some sort of cleaning service available, surely? Or are videos like this just a complete write-off?


SirHumphreyAppleby
2847 posts

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  #3259660 15-Jul-2024 12:00
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quickymart:

 

For sure, but there must be some sort of cleaning service available, surely? Or are videos like this just a complete write-off?

 

 

I digitised a VHS collection a few years ago and found a few mouldy tapes while cataloguing the collection. Due to a limited budget, only tapes that contained footage of specific interest were captured and none of the mouldy tapes were required, but research at the time indicated the mould could be cleaned off. The tapes are certainly not a complete write-off.


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