Distributed audio - AVR with multizone or specialised kit?

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sure124

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#171525 21-Apr-2015 16:42

New build etc....and I hate having too many options.

Got great price on a Lynxnet 3200 enclosure - http://www.lynxnet.co.nz/products/ln-3200dh/, so the house will be star wired for CAT + RG6 to cater for phone/data/tv/video
Also have 2 sets of DigitaLinx (DL-HDE100) for HDMI to CAT6 for wall mounted tellys. Sky boxes + AVR and HDMI extenders are destined for cabinet in study, and will have plenty of Data and RG6 outlets available to them courtesy of the Lynxnet 3200.

Now the audio options I (think) I have to choose from are:

Go with a decent AVR with multizone for main 5.1 setup, and distribute Zone 2 around the place with ceiling speakers and wall plates for volume etc
Stick a specialised audio "hub" in the new enclosure and just have the AVR as one of the sources - e.g. http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-95A00-3-4-Source-Structured-Enclosures/dp/B00BB3HLE8
something else?

I was thinking if I could get most things running through the AVR then I could distribute from there anyway. and how often would I need 4 zones to be playing 4 different sources really?
And I'm ok with pre-wiring the house with more cable than I need into blanked outlets for source/volume control later if appropriate.

Also for the STB's & TV's:

do I run CAT6 from HDMi extender(s) to the enclosure, then patch back to the TV/Receiver end?
or just from direct from cabinet to TV/extender(s)

My gut tells me to do option 1 for audio as opens up more options but will cost more $$, and for TV do option 1 also.
In general I am thinking I go ahead and run everything back to the enclosure regardless as the distances are not great - just a ton of cable to run.

thoughts?

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#1291198 25-Apr-2015 06:47

Sorry cant help re distribution plan, but if the distances to the displays are short, why not run HDMI as well as Cat6?

Speaker cable is cheap too if your know a Sparky and can get it wholesale, plan your speaker locations and run cable for them too.

Dunnersfella

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#1291208 25-Apr-2015 07:59

Questions:
How many TV's all up?
Will you be using an HDMI splitter from your MySky box to distribute to all TV's in the house?
What are you doing re: sound on those TV's? Sticking with the TV speakers? Or are you going to try and use the in-ceiling speakers?
For the AVR, will the TV connected to Zone 1 have free-to-air connected / smart features like Netflix/YouTube that you want to utilise?
If so, will you be using an optical or ARC technique to take the sound back to the AVR?

Regarding the audio...
I'd keep it simple, and I'd keep it separate if possible.
In-wall volume controls are a little old fashion, but they work, and they work well.
Keypads / automation is fun, but the complexity goes through the roof unless you want someone else to do the work.
I've seen audio distribution hubs work well, and work poorly. Often they struggle if anything outside of an efficient in-ceiling speaker is used. But if you can guarantee 91dB or higher in-ceiling's only, it's a nice, simple way to do things. Simply connect to the zone 2 pre-outs and use it as the power amp!

How often would you need 4 zones playing 4 different sources?
Well - probably never.

richms

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#1291225 25-Apr-2015 10:05

Ive seen inbuilt systems installed, and it looked like clunky dated technology, poor quality LCD keypad that looked like a cheap mobile phone screen and very laggy response to the button presses. It also controlled the sky and the AVR in the main zone. But because it had not been updated all the channel logos and numbers were wrong. Had to pay to get the guys to update it the owners said.

Any of the active stuff will date, and date quickly so I would not be installing anything fixed more than the speakers. If apple get more into the TV stuff soon who knows what will become possible with an apple tv on each screen and an airplay capable reciever etc.

Richard rich.ms

Dunnersfella

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#1291289 25-Apr-2015 13:13

There's something to be said for multiple Sonos Connect Amps lined up in the AV rack... one to each zone.
Controlling everything is via a tablet / phone / iPod touch / PC etc.
Add one, if you like it, add another, and so on.
You can still run a line out from the AVR into the Connect Amp, to receive most of what is playing on your AVR, through the Sonos system.

But personally, some of the discrete network speakers would keep me happy for bedroom / bathroom / kitchen use.
Nothing replaces decent component amps + speakers for serious listening though.

sure124

17 posts

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#1291525 25-Apr-2015 21:28

Only 2 TVs at build time but will cable for more.
The joy with the hdmi/cat6 kit I bought(mentioned in op) is that they have ir, data, Poe and hdmi signal over single cat6. So can make things easy on the TV end plus provide net access to smart TV.
TV room will utilise TV speakers or avr 5.1 with arc.

Think I might just wire for Ceilng speakers and wall plate controllers and if the volume controllers become pointless then no biggie.
If I can find a decent cheap multi source hub then might just feed it with the 2 zones from avr. As long as I get a good avr with grunt and heaps of connectivity for sources.

sure124

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#1293296 29-Apr-2015 08:53

re above - still like the idea of having a physical volume control at hand especially when in an outdoor area.

bbrichau

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RapalloAV

#1301045 9-May-2015 07:20

my 2 cents: put as much HDMI cable in as you can, because CAT6 is not the be all and end all of everything. I would put in both in parallel if you can.
CAT6 needs to be put in correctly. see this
http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/blog/HDMI-over-Cat-5-6-Extender/
and this
http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/367155/file-1580137825-pdf/Whitepapers/Dos_and_Donts_WP.Final.pdf?t=1410074115812&submissionGuid=7e47e6a8-0195-45f4-b4f3-9a52292e4ebe

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sure124

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#1301826 11-May-2015 11:08

Good blog write up - nice and concise.

Yeah was just adding this in to my cabling schedule Im doing right now. While I will be using the CAT6 extenders for my own use at build time, will be adding HDMI in also - all runs will be pretty short so it makes sense for next owner etc (if their ever is one).

Whats requirement behind the min 2m HDMI cable from device to extender?

Now just thinking I should run conduit/ducting vertically down through all wall frames to all outlets - single storey, so easy access from ceiling space to any conduit.

Jaxson

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#1301835 11-May-2015 11:19

My 2cents

I hate zone 2 on most receivers, but things may have improved nowadays. Problem with many were they we a complete afterthough, and pass through only. They needed their own analogue inputs and volume and source selection etc was just clunky.

For the likes of bedrooms I'd honestly go Bluetooth soundbar/wireless speaker on cabinet or wall mounted. Provide a 3.5mm input cable for non Bluetooth devices etc.
Heck even distribute a common audio signal via this into one of the speakers inputs if it's got selectable inputs.

There is so much effort/money for so little use in 90%+ of these systems when your touchscreen phone is leagues ahead user interface wise.

hdmi has made distributing video very clunky now also.
My kids watch youtube now more than TV I'd expect, so the nature of sources and distribution is changing rapidly to online supply. Apps in the TV, or chromecast type options once again use your phone for the source selection.
You could probably buy an iPad mini for every room for cheaper than some of the distributed home hub style custom/proprietary jobs I've seen.

bbrichau

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RapalloAV

#1301842 11-May-2015 11:29

Hi !
the 2M requirement is related to impedance issues with HDMI active gear below 2M
Handshaking issues occur when it is not 2M and they also all have to be 2M (same length) or longer. And beware (this is getting interesting) up to 10M you are ok but over 10M you may need HDMI boosters
cheers
Bart

bbrichau

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RapalloAV

#1301843 11-May-2015 11:30

oh...and if you want to future proof for 4k at 60Hz there is an issue because current HDMI cables do not yet support 60Hz (they do support 30Hz)

Jaxson

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#1301875 11-May-2015 11:54

bbrichau: future proof for 4k at 60Hz

This would be including some ducts and draw wires...

sure124

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#1301880 11-May-2015 12:01

thanks for clarification bbrichau

And good point(s) jaxson. I agree about bedrooms. But I still think I will go for the "zone 1 + 2" type arrangement for living and outdoor areas with hard wired controls, especially for outdoor/bbq areas - just convenient etc.

Jaxson

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#1301897 11-May-2015 12:31

Others can comment on this, but watch for delays between the zones, as they can be off with potential extra processing in the main zone vs analogue pass-through amplification only on the zone 2.
And do check out how you go about activating and controlling zone 2 with any remotes they give you etc. It can be a pain in the

sure124

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#1301912 11-May-2015 12:54

yes, it looks like some AVR's perform better than others in this space, along with differing options for control (apps vs remotes). As yet Im still undecided on AVR. I suspect I may have house cabled for data/phone/speakers/cntrol but no AVR!

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