Rear speakers for long room, no back wall.

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JimmyC

705 posts

Ultimate Geek

#195607 26-Apr-2016 14:32

We're in the process of building currently, final engineering plans being drawn as I type. The living room\theatre is open plan, 5.5m wide and 11m long before you hit the kitchen, so I'm looking for rear speaker ideas.

Standard boxes or wall speakers won't fly aesthetically or placement wise as 7.5m of that 11m length on the northern side will be glass doors so I'm looking at something in ceiling.

Your bog standard, downward firing speakers will not cut the mustard for directionality, if nothing else, although will make good Atmos speakers. Does anyone utilise any in ceiling rear speakers in a similar setup they could recommend? Budget would be circa $1k for a pair, though hopefully less.

1 | 2

1314 posts

Uber Geek

#1542740 27-Apr-2016 13:13

the old thiel powerpoints were the best in/on ceiling speakers i've heard.

they could be aimed at the listener.

mega-expensive new, soundline have a used pair for about $2k.

Dunnersfella

3827 posts

Uber Geek

#1542987 27-Apr-2016 19:37

Speakercraft / Klipsch both have drivers and tweeters that can be angled where you desire them to sit - this is VERY handy if your seating position was to ever change...

Polk only angle the tweeter, as do B&W.

JBL is tweeter only from memory.

Some speakers have a 30 degree angle built in (angle will vary from brand to brand) - but I prefer to be able to angle the speaker to my chosen angle...

livefornow851

54 posts

Master Geek

#1543096 27-Apr-2016 22:49

There are a few brands that have an entirely pivoting driver as well as the tweeter. Sonance VP6R and VP8R are something you may want to take a look at.

JimmyC

705 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1543528 28-Apr-2016 17:16

Thanks, I'll check those options out.

JimmyC

705 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1551610 12-May-2016 16:42

I think I've narrowed my options down to the below three choices (ranked by cost, high to low) -

Definitive Technology UIW RSS III

Speakercraft AIM 7 Two Series 2

Klipsch CDT-5800-C II

Does anyone have any first hand experiences with any of these models? The UIW RSS III's intrigue particularly, could be the best of both direct and disperse delivery. Slightly over my $1k budget but...

Dunnersfella

3827 posts

Uber Geek

#1551631 12-May-2016 17:29

To be fair, almost no one will have heard all 3 models...

The Klipsch are retailed through Harvey Norman.

The Speakercraft are a HiFi / custom install product.

And until I read your post, I'd never heard of the UIW RSS III's.

They simply won't appear in the same space for easy demo, I'm afraid you're flying blind somewhat.

JimmyC

705 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1551903 13-May-2016 08:27

Certainly wasn't expecting anyone to have heard all 3, I don't even think the RSS III's are available in NZ.

I was at the Tauranga Home Show this past weekend and spoke with an installer who said initially that any downward firing speakers would do as rears... immediate alarm bells, the roll off when off axis is crazy. Then he suggested when he does use a speaker with pivoting tweeter, he points them outwards towards the walls for a more diffuse effect. That I could possibly believe, but I'm still very interested in hearing experiences from anyone using an in ceiling setup for rear speakers. I'm not after a 'which brand is better' type discussion, but how well in ceiling speakers work for that application.

ilovemusic

1314 posts

Uber Geek

#1557622 22-May-2016 22:57

if you're playing high resolution audio with discrete rear channels, pointing the speakers towards the wall to diffuse the sound is a dumb idea so take whatever that installer said with a bucket of salt.

Batman

Mad Scientist
22607 posts

Uber Geek

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Lifetime subscriber

#1557660 23-May-2016 08:06

Also have you paid attention to room treatment (making sure the walls floor ceiling do not reflect sound)

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

JimmyC

705 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1559811 26-May-2016 09:26

joker97:

Also have you paid attention to room treatment (making sure the walls floor ceiling do not reflect sound)

We're looking at double noise line gib but at this stage that's about it. It's a living room first and foremost, and must look that way :-)

Denon

20 posts

Geek

#1570396 12-Jun-2016 11:29

Downward firing ceiling speakers are essentially open baffle. Some people say they are good for ambient background sound but may lack the punch of a full on home theatre experience. I have a similar problem. I have been thinking about building an enclosed cabinet into the roof space with a Q of about .7 (as opposed to vented - don't want to be sucking dust into the driver) Been thing of angling the drivers (MtM) on an angle of about 30 degrees on the baffle. Not idea (on-off axis etc) but may be the best solution. What are the back channels doing anyone? Crash-bang?

Oh yes - if you decide to build yourself - you need to do the math, that is use a speaker-CAD program.

What will be interesting is the dispersion of sound across the ceiling. Will the ceiling act like an infinite baffle?

Some of these in ceiling speakers are very similar to what goes into a car (high Qts) but a room is quite different (cabin gain etc)

JimmyC

705 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1583229 30-Jun-2016 11:00

I've put the rear speakers in the too hard basket for now. After speaking with 4-5 outlets, everyone seems to have very differing opinions on what will work and what doesn't. Angled, not angled, to pivot or not to pivot, phase issues, on\off axis issues... In itself that's been quite interesting to wade through but it indicates to me that in-ceiling speakers are still a compromise at best.

I'm sure a solution will turn up when I need it, still 2-3 months away yet.