No OSD via HDMI - You cannot be serious!!

Forums › Home Theatre (incl HTPC) › No OSD via HDMI - You cannot be serious!!

WalkToFreedom

11 posts

Geek

Topic # 26038 10-Sep-2008 13:17

I've just bought a new Yamaha RX-V563. For the life of me I can't get the OSD to work. So I call Yamaha and they show me a small clause in the manual that says:

When you connect your TV monitor or projector via HDMI connection, the OSD does not appear. In such cases, connect the TV monitor or projector via component, S-video or video connection.

They must be joking. I need to connect another cable and switch sources just to get OSD??? I downloaded the RX-V663 manual, it didn't have this clause??? I've googled this issue and apparently it's the same for certian Onkyo and Sony models aswell. What's your experience?

Look

66 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 163480 10-Sep-2008 13:39

Same with my Onkyo. I just turn HDMI enable off the display and view OSD via component if I need to. Not really a major.

bcourtney

652 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 27

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 163481 10-Sep-2008 13:42

Yep the same also with my Denon

stuzzo

534 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Reply # 163483 10-Sep-2008 13:46

Pretty much the norm I think. I have a highish end Pioneer that will do OSD over HDMI but can't overlay things like volume control graphics on the picture. To do with the fact that an HDCP link is involved .

bazzer

3290 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 209

Trusted

Reply # 163484 10-Sep-2008 13:48

I suppose it has something to do with it being digital, so they are unable to overlay the OSD in a simple manner. With HDMI on my Denon, if I display the menu the source video cuts out and its just a black screen (with menu text overlaid). With other output types, the menu is overlaid on top of the source video.

WalkToFreedom

11 posts

Geek

Reply # 163488 10-Sep-2008 14:01

What a drag. What's the point of moving to HDMI (one cable to rule them all) if I have to run a second just to view the OSD! I guess I'm a bit peeved because I put a considerable amount of effort into purchasing this particular model. The first one I had to return because the HDMI switching was faulty

stuzzo, you helped me out with some previous posts when I was looking for a AVR. I decided on the RX-V563 because of the price ($700) and the fact it does PCM (I'm using PS3, it decodes DTS HD & Dolby HD and sends it as PCM) so that's all I needed. Incidently the RX-V463 handles PCM as well but it was only $30 more for the 563. Oh and I decided on the KEF eggs (1005) for the speakers.

Thanks for your replies guys.

richms

21728 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4514

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 163491 10-Sep-2008 14:20

Are you telling me that you cant even get the avr's setup menu onscreen via hdmi?

How bloody useless. I can totally forgive no overlayed menus since thats hard to do, but internally routing the output of the OSD chip to the upscaler then you hit menu should be a piece of cake for them to do. Kinda makes going to hdmi pointless if there still has to be a composite/component run to be able to set the damn thing up or reconfigre your settings or whatever.

edit: infact, if I had bought one and found this out after getting it, it would be going back.

Richard rich.ms

WalkToFreedom

11 posts

Geek

Reply # 163492 10-Sep-2008 14:26

richms: Are you telling me that you cant even get the avr's setup menu onscreen via hdmi?

How bloody useless. I can totally forgive no overlayed menus since thats hard to do, but internally routing the output of the OSD chip to the upscaler then you hit menu should be a piece of cake for them to do. Kinda makes going to hdmi pointless if there still has to be a composite/component run to be able to set the damn thing up or reconfigre your settings or whatever.

edit: infact, if I had bought one and found this out after getting it, it would be going back.

Well, I wouldn't quite say pointless as I'm still using the AVR to play HD audio over HDMI but this issue does seem like a copout for me, I guess if you paid more you could get an AVR that handles this but probably alot more than $700.

stuzzo

534 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Reply # 163495 10-Sep-2008 14:40

$700 is a pretty good price you got there.

The problem with AVRs is that there are a myriad of these type of features (OSD over HDMI) that vary between generations of receivers and levels in the product line. I spent a fair while researching mine but was aware I'd only get it in top of the line along with various other things I wanted.

OSD over HDMI obviously requires some additional engineering and bear in mind it is ony Yamaha's second generation of HDMI receivers and possibly their first one at this price point.

WalkToFreedom

11 posts

Geek

Reply # 163497 10-Sep-2008 14:48

stuzzo: $700 is a pretty good price you got there.

The problem with AVRs is that there are a myriad of these type of features (OSD over HDMI) that vary between generations of receivers and levels in the product line. I spent a fair while researching mine but was aware I'd only get it in top of the line along with various other things I wanted.

OSD over HDMI obviously requires some additional engineering and bear in mind it is ony Yamaha's second generation of HDMI receivers and possibly their first one at this price point.

I was happy with the price. This is my first experience with home theater so $700 is not a great deal, I'll roll with the Yamaha learn a bit more about the process and if need be upgrade in the future with a bit more knowledge.

illicit

553 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 15

Reply # 163648 11-Sep-2008 00:07

WalkToFreedom: I've just bought a new Yamaha RX-V563. For the life of me I can't get the OSD to work. So I call Yamaha and they show me a small clause in the manual that says:

When you connect your TV monitor or projector via HDMI connection, the OSD does not appear. In such cases, connect the TV monitor or projector via component, S-video or video connection.

They must be joking. I need to connect another cable and switch sources just to get OSD??? I downloaded the RX-V663 manual, it didn't have this clause??? I've googled this issue and apparently it's the same for certian Onkyo and Sony models aswell. What's your experience?

You have purchased an AVR with HDMI switching as opposed to HDMI Inputs, basically your AVR has an HDMI switch built in which is completely seperate from the rest of the internals (apart from being able to control the switch with the remote) thats why sound from your components need a seperate cable (RCA, optical or coax)

Your AVR hast nothing to do at all with the signal from the HDMI connections, you need and AVR with HDMI inputs (like the rx-v663) these are generally labeled HDMI Conversion (or up-conversion) because they can take any input (usually) and up-convert it and output it through the HDMI, because they are actualy dealing with the HDMI signal, they are able to overlay the OSD.

stuzzo

534 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Reply # 163653 11-Sep-2008 00:59

Not quite right there illicit, the Yamaha 563 does process audio over HDMI ie it is not just a switching receiver.

I don't think any of the Yamaha receivers do OSD (On screen display) over HDMI actually. No doubt it will come to all receivers eventually. Some brands (as mentioned) do for at least part of their range but the feature seems to start at about twice what the 563 cost.

bazzer

3290 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 209

Trusted

Reply # 163688 11-Sep-2008 08:47

bazzer: I suppose it has something to do with it being digital, so they are unable to overlay the OSD in a simple manner. With HDMI on my Denon, if I display the menu the source video cuts out and its just a black screen (with menu text overlaid). With other output types, the menu is overlaid on top of the source video.

Turns out I had this wrong, my Denon does output OSD and overlay via HDMI. It just depends on what the input is. So, upscaled analog inputs can have the OSD overlaid on the source video, but HDMI inputs have the black screen.

jpollock

600 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Trusted

Reply # 163708 11-Sep-2008 09:47

It would make sense for HDCP to prevent this sort of modification.

It was designed to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks between the player and the display.

Essentially, from the protocol's point of view, a receiver trying to insert it's data into the stream is an attacker.

You can think of an HDCP HDMI stream as an SSL connection between your source (BlueRay/Sky) and the TV.

I imagine that Sky has a lot of HDCP enabled content on their mysky HD product.

A quick google seems to indicate that the HDMI people realise it's a problem and have come up with
"Consumer Electronics Control" (CEC) as a work around.

Wow, DRM is really starting to hit in interesting places. I'll have to add this to my list of questions when
I buy my next receiver and display.

---
http://blog.jason.pollock.ca

illicit

553 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 15

Reply # 163869 11-Sep-2008 21:54

stuzzo: Not quite right there illicit, the Yamaha 563 does process audio over HDMI ie it is not just a switching receiver.

I don't think any of the Yamaha receivers do OSD (On screen display) over HDMI actually. No doubt it will come to all receivers eventually. Some brands (as mentioned) do for at least part of their range but the feature seems to start at about twice what the 563 cost.

My Bad, havent installed one of them yet.

Processing audio but not video seems a bit half ass'd, i see the value in it but it wouldnt be that much more to do video.

The Yamaha rx-v663 (and most above it) does OSD via HDMI and upscaling etc