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Geektastic

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#279728 4-Nov-2020 09:47
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This is a general point so didn’t seem to belong in any specific forum, Mods please relocate if you think it does.

I was watching Mandalorian last night and noted a number of scenes where the camera work jarred. I re-ran them.

It’s hard to describe but it felt to me that some parts were too real. Film work shouldn’t feel like watching a home movie. It should feel like you’re viewing the scenes as an invisible observer. Some scenes, especially in the main fight with the giant sand worm, felt as though they suddenly switched from film work to something shot on a phone at a fancy dress party. Usually close up scenes of one or two actors.

I wonder if they used different cameras for the wide scenes and close ups because the visual feel to me was disconnected enough to notice.

Did anyone else notice? I’ve seen it in several other streamed series and multiple platforms, not just this one.






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MikeAqua
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  #2597424 4-Nov-2020 09:52
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I hear what you're saying.

 

I've also noticed that modern HD cameras are showing up the quality of sets.





Mike




elpenguino
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  #2597431 4-Nov-2020 09:58
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And actor's skin conditions.





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gehenna
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  #2597432 4-Nov-2020 09:59
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Most of The Mandalorian sets are fully digital on massive OLED displays.  There's some good videos online about it, e.g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUnxzVOs3rk

 

By the way, make sure motion smoothing is turned off on your telly, always.

 

Personally I think the episode looked great. I don't have a problem with the things you're describing.  YMMV of course.




Inphinity
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  #2597436 4-Nov-2020 10:01
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It didn't feel jarring to me, and the change in aspect during those scenes felt like it enhanced the scale of the krayt dragon.


DjShadow
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  #2597440 4-Nov-2020 10:04
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For when it was when the 1st Hobbit movie came out and introduced the world to 48fps, it just didn't feel right compared to what we were used to


clicknz
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  #2597443 4-Nov-2020 10:05
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Hi - interesting that you mention this. There was an article on one of the camera blogs about the gear they used during some of the model scenes where they were trying to match earlier filming by using older camera tech (linked below). I guess they are fully aware of the variations, as they most certainly use different camera tech for different scenes and some would be CGI and some are filmed against giant LED screens...

 

I know that when I was working on shooting stills for a local TV production that was being shot in 4K for the first time there was a lot more effort put into make up, hair & set construction than usual - the details show up and are often not helping the story.

 

https://www.dpreview.com/news/8607070063/iconic-scenes-in-the-mandalorian-were-filmed-using-a-canon-5d-and-nikon-lens





Cheers,
Mike

Photographer/Videographer clickmedia.nz


wellygary
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  #2597453 4-Nov-2020 10:13
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The Mandalorian has really pushed the boat out in term of "virtual" sets, they have a huge circular LED screen set called "stagecraft" "that they "project" backgrounds onto..... for the actors to work and engage with ( also to light the actors)-

 


They don't specially say-  but I think that these backgrounds are then digitally replaced real time by the full renders dirctly onto the captured digital "film" with the physical actors...

 


 
 
 

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Oblivian
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  #2597471 4-Nov-2020 10:29
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wellygary:

 

The Mandalorian has really pushed the boat out in term of "virtual" sets, they have a huge circular LED screen set called "stagecraft" "that they "project" backgrounds onto..... for the actors to work and engage with ( also to light the actors)-

 


They don't specially say-  but I think that these backgrounds are then digitally replaced real time by the full renders dirctly onto the captured digital "film" with the physical actors...

 

 

 

 

Correct. It's a thing of beauty. You can change lighting etc on the fly. All from the Unreal Engine!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bErPsq5kPzE 

 

 

 

To the original query - What you are describing is a hot topic at present. Did you also note the black bars change size? It's full of aspect ratio shifts

 

https://screenrant.com/mandalorian-season-2-episode-1-aspect-ratio-change-explained/ 

 

It might need some smooth motion tweaking. But for a portion, was done on purpose


gehenna
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  #2597476 4-Nov-2020 10:33
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Re the aspect ratio - there's some debate that pre-COVID the intent for the premiere of Season 2 may have been to screen it at IMAX, hence the ratio shifting.


MikeAqua
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  #2597492 4-Nov-2020 10:46
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DjShadow:

 

For when it was when the 1st Hobbit movie came out and introduced the world to 48fps, it just didn't feel right compared to what we were used to

 

 

Ditto.  I felt like I was watching a play, with an obviously fake set particularly during the indoor scenes.





Mike


Geektastic

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  #2597499 4-Nov-2020 10:55
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I did see the letterbox change, yes.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought it was a bit janky. Overall, it’s really good which is why, I think, the small sections that aren’t are obvious enough to let it down a bit.





Oblivian
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  #2597502 4-Nov-2020 11:01
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With resolution and depth the way it is now (man the pores on peoples skin in netflix/HD on a 2020 Samsung 4K capable but not enabled vs my 2013 Panasonic Plasma is mind blowing).

 

I wonder if what we're seeing now is how we all were with the change to over-shoulder filming

 

Where they ditched the stationary pan/cut cameras for the lighter mobile/handheld and introduced human-movement and viewpoint shots to take away the 'it's acting and really can tell' feel. To me, going back to some older stuff where there is no camera motion now feels more odd. Unless they do nice scene cuts and so on like in Mando.


Batman
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  #2597563 4-Nov-2020 12:08
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hey geekstastic, sorry but i am not sure of what the issue is - is the scene too unrealistic or too realistic?


SpartanVXL
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  #2597574 4-Nov-2020 12:27
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This has been the case in the arguments against higher frame rates. It does put a higher burden on acting and the need for higher quality sets as any imperfections are caught in detail.

I think at some point to meet to demand for 4k+ resolutions and possibly higher framerate, ML/AI upscaled footage would be used and hopefully not create/carry any of the details that look ‘fake’ and instead provide image quality of what it ‘should’ be like.

A funny train of thought. A ‘fake’ approximation from worse quality footage is better received than real footage because it won’t carry the imperfections of reality.

MadEngineer
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  #2597577 4-Nov-2020 12:34
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The most jarring example of this I’ve found is Back To The Future.




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