Best current deal for a true HD audio capable receiver?

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Jaxson

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#28317 26-Nov-2008 12:03

Hi all.

Anyone seen any great deals on a true HD audio capable receiver? I'm like many here with a 5.1 DD DTS only receiver, still fairly new but unable to access the better quality Bluray soundtracks now. I guess with Stereo World closing down there'd be a deal to be had there but I'm unfortunately not in Auckland.

As an aside, the PS3 and most other players simply offer up the standard DD or DTS soundtrack when you watch a bluray disc, normally at a rate of around 448kb/s from memory, and the optical/coax out can do up to 1.5 Mb/s. I read somewhere the current samsung bluray player does a cool trick of down scaling the true HD audio soundtracks on the bluray disc to the best possible rate achievable with the traditional/older optical/coax format.

Cheers.

whatty

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#180537 26-Nov-2008 21:34

Onkyo606, just search around till you find best price. Most shops including H.N will cut a deal atm.

bazzer

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#180563 26-Nov-2008 23:05

Jaxson: As an aside, the PS3 and most other players simply offer up the standard DD or DTS soundtrack when you watch a DVD, normally at a rate of around 448kb/s from memory, and the optical/coax out can do up to 1.5 Mb/s. I read somewhere the current samsung bluray player does a cool trick of down scaling the true HD audio soundtracks to the best possible rate achievable with the traditional/older format.

I dont know what you mean here, can you clarify?

lchiu7

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#180573 27-Nov-2008 01:35

The PS3 can process BD titles with Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master HD on them. But rather than output those signals as bitstream over HDMI, the player decodes the signals and outputs multi-channel PCM (MLPCM) over HDMI. To process these all you need is a AVR that has HDMI 1.1 and the ability to process PCM audio over HDMI. You don't need a more expensive AVR that can decode the hi-res audio formats.

As for cheap units, if you can find an Onkyo TX-DS676 or perhaps a Yamaha rx-v861. I have seen the Onkyo on closeout for < $1K

Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD. https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.

Jaxson

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#180604 27-Nov-2008 08:45

Thanks lchiu7, I hadn't considered that you don't need an amp that has internal decoding of these formats, just the ability to work with the decoded stream.

Sorry Bazzer, my description above was half assed. The optical/digital coax signal system itself can only handle data rates up to 1.5mb/s max and this is below the hd audio rates found on bluray discs. To get the hd audio you do need an hdmi connection between player and receiver.

Bluray discs include at least one older style compressed audio track to ensure compatability with older receivers etc. This way you can get the picture quality and keep the older audio receiver. This compressed track audio data rate is often around 448 kb/s, and is the same format that was used on DVD discs. The samsung bluray player has a cool trick of taking the hd audio track and down sampling to 1.5mb/s so that you can output this over optical/coax and hopefully get a better quality sound than the base 448kb/s basic track on the bluray.

BadMac

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#180612 27-Nov-2008 09:32

I was in the same situation as you and spent a long time researching the best path forward.
In the end I have ordered a Yamaha 663 ($1200). The Onkyo 606 is probably a better unit but I could only get it down to $1350.
You can parallel import them from Singapore, yes you forgo your warrenty (you can buy aftermarket ones here or just pay if something goes wrong, the Yamaha/Onkyo service centres will happily take your money). The Singapore stuff is the same as NZ (Voltage, etc).
As an example, the Onkyo 606 can be had for between $600-$800NZ landed from Singapore. You can also buy from the US, but will need a 220/110 Transformer, you will pay around $600 although the NZ->US dollar is killing the advantage.
Failing that, I found that HN were very negotiable. JB sometimes have good specials.I would think both the above brands/units would already have been cleaned out from Stereo world as they are pretty sought after.

lchiu7

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#180616 27-Nov-2008 09:50

Out of interest where in Singapore does one get these units from? I ended up getting my Onkyo from the US ($620 landed when the dollar was much better!) and saved about $350 on local price. I didn't care about the voltage since I have transformers already in the cabinet to handle other US gear. And for warranty - well that's the same situation as when you get one from Singapore anyway I guess.

Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD. https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.

Nety

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#180621 27-Nov-2008 10:28

Jaxson:
Bluray discs include at least one older style compressed audio track to ensure compatability with older receivers etc. This way you can get the picture quality and keep the older audio receiver. This compressed track audio data rate is often around 448 kb/s, and is the same format that was used on DVD discs.

Not true.. For example Casino Royal does not have any compressed audio tracks unless you can speak other languages. In english it only uncompressed options. However I think fairly much all players are able to downconvert for you.

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lchiu7

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#180652 27-Nov-2008 12:04

I think players will as you say dynamically downconvert uncompressed formats. From memory the first Samsungs downconverted to DTS and that was given as a plus since some people believe it's a better sounding codec. But the later models switched to DD since there more receivers out there that supported DD than DTS (I used to have one of those and was annoyed when a movie only had DTS HD Master and no DD English track). I ended up having to listen to the movie in stereo!

Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD. https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.

Jaxson

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#180667 27-Nov-2008 13:23

Yeah just had a good look into this and many bluray discs do have a legacy track available, but you're right, not all. In that case the player will need to down convert to something that can be put out over optical/coax. Some will do a nice job of this for you, down sampling to the max data rate you can achieve over that format. Other audio tracks have a common base of dts and the additional hd stuff is built on top of this, so you use either the base over optical or the full track over hdmi.

Looks like the onkyo 606 type receiver is well regarded as the cheapest fully capable unit. Man there's so many layers to the hd audio side of things. You've got your standard legacy DD and DTS from DVD era, then higher quality tracks that are still compressed and then finally the full quality non compressed soundtracks. And then I guess you've got the old problem of only so much space, so either the video gets compressed more to make room for the audio, or the audio gets compressed to make room for the video.

Looks friggen great though!

Batman

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#180685 27-Nov-2008 14:30

this is good, just the thread i needed! was trying to buy a receiver but had no idea what to look for!!! (in terms of its audio and video specs) ... what does it mean by "true HD audio" guys? (i'm also googling now) also anything to look for in terms of video capabilities?

Jaxson

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#180692 27-Nov-2008 15:11

There is basically the older DD and DTS 5.1 formats which are on DVD discs and are quite heavily compressed. From there you get into the higher quality formats and these all require hdmi connections.

Next step up is much better, but still compressed:

You may find that some Blu-ray and HD DVD discs are also encoded with other discrete 7.1-channel surround formats. Dolby Laboratories and DTS developed Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD (High Resolution), respectively. These formats deliver 7.1 independent channels of sound. They provide more detailed surround effects than 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS, though they aren't lossless like Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Receivers that support lossless 7.1-channel formats will also support Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD (High Resolution).

Then the uncompressed options:
Dolby TrueHD

This lossless format offers up to 7.1 discrete channels of lossless audio. Along with adding two extra rear channels to the standard Dolby Digital format, Dolby TrueHD discs are encoded with more audio information per channel. In fact, they provide sound with improved directionality and more precise effects — it's even closer to the experience of being in a movie theater.

DTS-HD™ Master Audio

This lossless audio format is similar to Dolby TrueHD. It features 7.1 discrete channels of audio, and is used on some Blu-ray discs. Like Dolby TrueHD, it also provides impressively accurate sound.

Check these websites for some info, the last one only read the Bluray part as the HD DVD is not relevant anymore.
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_audio_codecs
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1064

whatty

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#180785 27-Nov-2008 22:06

I have had my Onkyo 605 for about 6 mnths, got it for $1K. Must have known they where going down as it only took 5 mins to knock off $200 from Stero World.

I have allways considerd myself to be a visual fan but once i got my set of B&W602 hooked up to this beast with a PS3 I would say the biggest jump in Blu Ray (HD) is the sound. 8mbs/sec of wife anoying heaven!!

Selling it before xmas though as my set up demands 4 HDMI inputs due to it moving into a dedicated cupboard...

lchiu7

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#180800 27-Nov-2008 22:41

Why don't you just get a HDMI switch with remote control? With a Harmony remote, the combination of a switch and the existing inputs in the AVR is pretty seamless.

I am guessing if you're moving the AVR into a cabinet you will be using IR repeaters and it's not too hard to stick on on the front of the HDMI switch

Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD. https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.

whatty

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#180807 27-Nov-2008 23:00

If that was the only reason I would agree. I need a Network capable reciever for a number of reasons.

beddy

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#180965 28-Nov-2008 18:01

I picked up an Onkyo 606 for $1,150 from HN in Porirua around 3 months ago.
Just asked how low they'd go, and I think they said $1400 or something like that, so I said I was gonna have a look around, so they said I could have it for $1,150.