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152 posts

Master Geek
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Topic # 59227 30-Mar-2010 14:50
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Hi All

I have read few a few threads on the forums here but I cant seem to get a clear idea on what to put in (audio wise) when wiring my house since the gib is off the walls.

I have an open planned family room and kitchen as well as a sunroom although there is a small wall segmenting the sunroon from the rest of the house. The sunroom has frenchdoors out to the deck.

I currently have the gib off the family room and kitchen. I have rj45 sockets in the family room (x4), (x1)kitchen and sunroom (x1).

In the family room I am thinking of putting my 32 inch LCD and panasonic home theatre. It has wireless rear speakers so I dont need to run wire in the walls connecting the panasonic HT to the rears.

The sunroom currently has its own mini system radio/cd player but this does not get sound outside too well.

What I would like to do is put some roof speakers in the kitchen as well as some wall mounted in the sunroom that will also cater for sound for the deck.

I am thinking that it would be good to have the panasonic as the main source (can plug an ipod into it as well) but to be able to when watching tv have the speakers in the kitchen work.

It would be good to isolate the sunroom/deck so that I could play out to there as well.

I just need some ideas so that I can put in speaker cabeling while the gib is off at least so I dont regret not putting anything in once the walls are on.

I dont have a huge budget so a 4000 amp is out of the question but maybe its something I can invest in and use later on if I have the wire there?

I have also seen suggestions such as Logitech squeesebox.

Thansk for any ideas/help

Cheers
Andy


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  Reply # 312866 30-Mar-2010 15:49
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Put in cables for your rears while you can. You will probably outgrow that panasonic system, and then you will be stuffed.

You can be cheap and just use a speaker switch on the home theater - but the all in one machines tend to have some pretty heavy EQ in them to get the lousy speakers sounding ok, so you need to match the speakers with more the same if you want it to sound anything like ok.

When you grow into a real HT system, lots let you use the pretty much redundant 6th and 7th channels as a second zone which will get you stereo audio to the second lot of speakers.

Otherwise you can just get a cheap stereo amp and put it on one of the many now unused tape outputs on the main amp, just remember that you need an analog signal in to get anything out of those, so you have to run RCAs as well as HDMI to your sources and you may get some latency between the 2 so in an open plan place its not ideal.




Richard rich.ms



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 312893 30-Mar-2010 16:39
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Thanks Richms. So look at putting in speaker wire for 2 x rear speakers, 2 x roofspeakers (kitchen) and 2 x wall mounted in sunroom.

Does a speaker switch allow you to just enable speakers in different areas (zones) ?

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  Reply # 312911 30-Mar-2010 17:08
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Yes, but at the same volume, which will drop if the switch series connects them.

You can get a really cheap low power amp called the T amp - 12 watts I think but they cost stuff all and will let you drive a couple of speakers to OK volume - 190383117433 on ebay looks like the one I got for my arcade cabinet but includes a power supply.

Wont shake the house down but will be better than trying to use an equalized amp in a home theater in a box solution to try to drive normal speakers.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 312922 30-Mar-2010 17:30
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Infact thats about half what I paid, ordering another to put on the outdoor speakers so they dont get left on like they do when on the B speakers on the AVR...




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 312924 30-Mar-2010 17:33
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I think you should wire up were you want all the speakers for a start thats easy while the gibs off, but maybe flag the Panasonic H/T system as richms says you will out grow it and find it won't do what you want and it will sound very bad.
Instead just save a bit more and get a nice amp which for $1500 or so is a better investment, HD audio for Blu Ray, will have second zone and will run a proper speaker switch if needed or just use B speakers etc for the third set of speakers.
You can get 5.1 speaker sets from $400 or so (that will sound much better than planned system) pair of bookshelves $300 and maybe a stereo single speaker for the kitchen (in ceiling) $200.
That would be a pretty good bet without blowing the bank, but still getting good sound.
Thats what I would do. :)
Try not to get gear you will just be upgrading sooner than later I guess.



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 312950 30-Mar-2010 18:43
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Thanks Rich and Bolly. Bolly do you mean an amp like this one? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Home-audio/Amplifiers-tuners/auction-280392035.htm It seems to do multi-room if I read it right.

I am thinking that maybe I just put in the wire and then save up for the amp and speakers. At least the wire will be there for when I replace the Panasonic.

So hard doing this stuff thinking about possible future requirements :)

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  Reply # 312970 30-Mar-2010 18:58
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That is a pretty featurelacking reciver, not even 7ch of amplifier built in.

The ones that let you do zone 2 on them are 7.1 ones that you dont use the last 2 channels for home theater, instead it uses them as the zone 2 amp.

Or get one with a zone 2 RCA output and hang a crap amp on it for the other speakers. Inwall/in cieling ones cant take much power unless you have the ones with a box that you put in pre gibbing, the ones that are just bare into the wall will have all sorts of rattling and stuff at minimal power levels so 20 watts is more than enough for them.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 313099 30-Mar-2010 21:02
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flynkiwi: Thanks Rich and Bolly. Bolly do you mean an amp like this one? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Home-audio/Amplifiers-tuners/auction-280392035.htm It seems to do multi-room if I read it right.


No thats not a good amp nor what your after, Check out the Yamaha RXV665 or Denon AVR790 amps, they have what you need! Pick up for $1400- $1500 see links.....
http://www.audioproducts.co.nz/ProductInfo.aspx?pid=AVR790BK
http://www.soundgroup.co.nz/index.php?action=product-detail&proid=926

I am thinking that maybe I just put in the wire and then save up for the amp and speakers. At least the wire will be there for when I replace the Panasonic.


Yeah make sure the wiring is all good then will be so easy in future to just plonk everything in, just remember x2 fronts x2 rear and maybe the center depending on speaker size and if you want on the wall or not. Maybe also think about cabling to the tv if you want one one the wall? HDMI, RF, Component etc. Also run cables for the other speakers you want in other parts of house down to were amp will be and have excess rolled up in roof cavity ready to go.

Best of luck! 

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  Reply # 313113 30-Mar-2010 21:10
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richms: Inwall/in cieling ones cant take much power unless you have the ones with a box that you put in pre gibbing, the ones that are just bare into the wall will have all sorts of rattling and stuff at minimal power levels so 20 watts is more than enough for them.



Check these out my local Harveys have a whole range of these set up and are very impressive!
http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/architectural-speaker/

They were more what I was meaning, and need a good amp to run them, don't need boxing just  make a hole and stick in like a car speaker (But better) Only rattle if your gibs not put up properly! :)

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  Reply # 313149 30-Mar-2010 21:37
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Several of those ones are open back, so yes, you need to build a box or else have it in a known volume cavity and brace the gib well or doubleskin it with ply in the cavety that the speaker is going or they will sound rubbish basswise. Without a box they will bottom out at minimal power levels unless you eq all the bass away. Infinate baffle sounds good on paper but having the speakers open to the roof space makes them sound funny everytime there is a gust of wind or someone opens/closes a door.

What are you talking about just put a car speaker in a hole? Perhaps if you have some $30 fusion or some knockoffs off trademe you would just put them in a hole, but generally a pod is bought or made when putting decent speakers into a car. The car door is just as unpredictable as a roof cavety as far as response goes.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 313193 30-Mar-2010 22:11
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richms: Several of those ones are open back, so yes, you need to build a box or else have it in a known volume cavity and brace the gib well or doubleskin it with ply in the cavety that the speaker is going or they will sound rubbish basswise. Without a box they will bottom out at minimal power levels unless you eq all the bass away. Infinate baffle sounds good on paper but having the speakers open to the roof space makes them sound funny everytime there is a gust of wind or someone opens/closes a door.

What are you talking about just put a car speaker in a hole? Perhaps if you have some $30 fusion or some knockoffs off trademe you would just put them in a hole, but generally a pod is bought or made when putting decent speakers into a car. The car door is just as unpredictable as a roof cavety as far as response goes.


I don't want to argue but did you check the link? Those speakers are sick! Harveys had a whole wall set up working with a cupbord behind so could see no boxing or anything, open air speakers, they also had 5.1 ceiling setup in a suspended roof hooked up with a decent amp and projector that sounded amazing!
I was meaning cut a round hole in the ceiling and install just like you would a car speaker.
All I can say is if you live in Chch check out the Harveys store and have a listen you will be a believer! Or your local harveys maybe if not in ChCh.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 313386 31-Mar-2010 10:19
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I've had a similar experience, where I wasn't sure which wires I would need. The answer was to drill holes in the dwangs and joists as needed, and run lengths of nylon string inside the walls, in any combination where you think you may later want to run some wiring.

The real secret is to take a photo of the wall before the gib goes on, so you don't have to remember where that run of nylon string ended :)

This means you can later drill a small hole and pull wiring through the walls without having to strip the gib off. It gives you a lot of flexibility for future changes.

Be warned that long runs of string, especially around corners, can get stuck - you need to test and make sure you can pull it through *before* you put the gib on the walls.



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 313401 31-Mar-2010 10:40
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Thanks for the tip Buzzy. The Gib goes on after the Easter break so I am going to have a busy weekend drilling more holes and running cable where I know speakers are going to go in future and drawstring where they may possibly go.

At least the network cable and RG6 runs where straight forward :)

Thanks for the speaker advice as well Rich and Bolly. luckily if I get some pre-wire up to the roof I can decie what speakers later on. Bolly when you say Harveys do you mean Harvey Norman?

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  Reply # 313402 31-Mar-2010 10:40
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buzzy: I've had a similar experience, where I wasn't sure which wires I would need. The answer was to drill holes in the dwangs and joists as needed, and run lengths of nylon string inside the walls, in any combination where you think you may later want to run some wiring.

The real secret is to take a photo of the wall before the gib goes on, so you don't have to remember where that run of nylon string ended :)

This means you can later drill a small hole and pull wiring through the walls without having to strip the gib off. It gives you a lot of flexibility for future changes.

Be warned that long runs of string, especially around corners, can get stuck - you need to test and make sure you can pull it through *before* you put the gib on the walls.


Great point!

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  Reply # 313673 1-Apr-2010 00:58
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I am an installer, and while you are on a shoestring, I can probably help.

In terms of multi-room, I can probably get you a 4-zone amp that produces 30w per zone for not that much. The wholesaler is having their end of year sale now, so the pricing won't last long, if at all past Easter... $800. It may seem expensive, but it's not. Especially considering the hassle of daisy chaining single amps and getting things to talk nicely to each other.

For running cable, I'd put some cable in before the gib went up, or use really big drill bits, even forstner bits.

Feel free to get in contact. It might cost money, but in the long run, my services also save money.

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