Music on HTPC vs DVD/Bluray Players

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gumdigger

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#63681 1-Jul-2010 23:35

Hi

i wanted to know why a disc played in a bluray/dvd player sounds better when i play the same disc in htpc and it is not as powerful/dynamic sounding as the player. i did the same test with mp3. on htpc not very powerful but when i burned those on a cd in mp3 format and played it on the player they sound good.

HTPC is connected to my amp(yamaha rxv657) via a digital coax

bluray player connected to my amp via digital optical cable.

any recommendations?

thanks

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217 posts

Master Geek
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#347293 2-Jul-2010 14:12

Interesting comparison.

Is the Yammy showing the same sort of input from both sources? For example, is it showing two-channel stereo from both, or is it showing 5.1/DTS from the Blu-ray player? It could be that the blu-ray source is sending a 5.1 signal that's then being played back via the surrounds too, resulting in a richer sound even though the source is a stereo recording.

Is the sound noticeably louder? It could also be that the blu-ray is sending a more powerful signal and so the sound is just louder. I was testing some speakers a year or so ago, and one set always sounded "better" because they were more efficient speakers, so they were louder at the same volume on the amp. You could be hearing something similar here.

Jaxson

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#347299 2-Jul-2010 14:34

Buzzy has a good point with the receiver simulating 5.1 off a 2 channel source. Worth checking that out. Check what the default sound profile is for each separate input source.

Other options are the htpc unknowingly applying some sort of equaliser profile. I know windows media does this, and if the default is flat or vocal or something it might sound like crap. Vice versa too, in that if you find an equaliser setting you like it might sound a lot better.

Idea #3 is based on the componentry being better quality audio quality wise than the internals of the PC. That said I'd doubt this is having a big enough affect if you are using an mp3 file as your sound source. More likely to be volume level differences as Buzzy has addressed above.

gumdigger

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#347312 2-Jul-2010 15:12

Amp is displaying 2channel whether its played from bluray or htpc.

Jaxson

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#347313 2-Jul-2010 15:18

And no additional amp equilisation is being applied to one input and not another? Don't know if you have an audessy mic type auto setup on that receiver.

gumdigger

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Ultimate Geek
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#347348 2-Jul-2010 16:34

Jaxson: And no additional amp equilisation is being applied to one input and not another? Don't know if you have an audessy mic type auto setup on that receiver.

Do you mean the calibration mic? yes it does but i have never used auto setup.

would there be any extra amplification on the player itself?. because its got to be with power.

richms

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#347363 2-Jul-2010 17:15

Try with foobar2000 and the wasapi output plugin so it has exclusive bit accurate access to the sound device.

Not all will do 44.1kHz (Like hdmi devices) but most optical and coax ones will, check that its set on 44.1 on your sound devices output settings if you are playing 44.1kHz material.

There is always the option that you have a dvd player that is doing some processing to the audio to justify its price. I had an expensive CD player that had massive loudness like equalization applied to its analog outputs to make it sound "better" on a casual listen at low volumes. Digital was unmolestered. No reason to not expect that under the guise of "upconversion" a bluray player isnt doing the same sort of crap to the audio.

Richard rich.ms

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buzzy

217 posts

Master Geek
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#347398 2-Jul-2010 19:35

gumdigger:Do you mean the calibration mic? yes it does but i have never used auto setup.

would there be any extra amplification on the player itself?. because its got to be with power.

The calibration mic isn't likely to affect things; on the Yamaha it's used to set relative speaker output power and equalisation, which is honored regardless of the input source.

Jaxson mentioned checking the EQ settings on the amp are the same for both sources; if you've got a PURE DIRECT button on the Yammy, it's a good way to ensure the amp's not doing any processing of the sound.

I'm wondering whether the blu-ray player has some in-built equalisation going on prior to sending the signal to the Yammy. Can you get into the menu for it and see whether it's doing some EQ stuff before sending the signal to the amp? RichMS and Jaxson both suggested checking the PC isn't doing any EQ stuff too. Foobar's a good way to do that. Windows media player and iTunes both have some EQ enabled by default if I recall correctly.

gumdigger

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Ultimate Geek
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#347435 2-Jul-2010 23:22

richms: Try with foobar2000 and the wasapi output plugin so it has exclusive bit accurate access to the sound device.

Not all will do 44.1kHz (Like hdmi devices) but most optical and coax ones will, check that its set on 44.1 on your sound devices output settings if you are playing 44.1kHz material.

There is always the option that you have a dvd player that is doing some processing to the audio to justify its price. I had an expensive CD player that had massive loudness like equalization applied to its analog outputs to make it sound "better" on a casual listen at low volumes. Digital was unmolestered. No reason to not expect that under the guise of "upconversion" a bluray player isnt doing the same sort of crap to the audio.

I tried the wasapi plugin, i couldnt notice any difference. also checked the menus of the bluray player but there was menu for equalizer

gumdigger

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#347437 2-Jul-2010 23:30

buzzy:
gumdigger:Do you mean the calibration mic? yes it does but i have never used auto setup.

would there be any extra amplification on the player itself?. because its got to be with power.

The calibration mic isn't likely to affect things; on the Yamaha it's used to set relative speaker output power and equalisation, which is honored regardless of the input source.

Jaxson mentioned checking the EQ settings on the amp are the same for both sources; if you've got a PURE DIRECT button on the Yammy, it's a good way to ensure the amp's not doing any processing of the sound.

I'm wondering whether the blu-ray player has some in-built equalisation going on prior to sending the signal to the Yammy. Can you get into the menu for it and see whether it's doing some EQ stuff before sending the signal to the amp? RichMS and Jaxson both suggested checking the PC isn't doing any EQ stuff too. Foobar's a good way to do that. Windows media player and iTunes both have some EQ enabled by default if I recall correctly.

i tested this by putting the amp on 2 channel stereo for both sources htpc & bluray. also is set to auto eq for both sources.

buzzy

217 posts

Master Geek
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#347460 3-Jul-2010 09:17

Another thing you could possibly test is sending the signal from one device to the other - so for example sending the signal from HTPC to the blu-ray player, and having the blu-ray player pass it through to the amp.

Not sure whether that's possible given the inputs/outputs on your sound card and blu-ray player, but if the sound is different when passed through the blu-ray player, then you know it's doing something to the sound. Of course, if there's no difference then it could be that the player is only performing the EQ on disc sources, and not performing any EQ on an external source, so this isn't really a conclusive test unfortunately.

Can't think of any other things to suggest I'm afraid.

smac

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Ultimate Geek
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#347465 3-Jul-2010 09:56

Just as likely as the player doing something, is the htpc not doing something. ie is the htpc digital output at the correct bitrate, does it have the correct drivers loaded, what are the gain settings doing etc etc

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gumdigger

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Ultimate Geek
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#347549 3-Jul-2010 19:26

there are no inputs on the bluray player, is there anything we can do with software filters
take a look at graphedit screenshot
[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/x23v5y.jpg[/IMG]

i usually play my music through mediaportal, not sure which filter to tweak fddshow or ac3filter by looking at the graphedit screenshot

tkr001

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Ultimate Geek
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#347637 4-Jul-2010 10:54

SPDIF from a PC to an AVR will never produce Hifi sound but if you are using MP3 or any other compressed format then you will never get Hifi anyway. For acceptable results try the following.

1. Spdif or USB from the PC to a DAC you can pick these up relatively cheaply eg http://www.listeningpost.co.nz/section.cfm?section=19

2. Connect the analoge outs from your DAC to the AVR.

3. Run your AVR in pure direct (or whatever your AVR calls it) mode.

4. Rip your music in a lossless format such as FLAC

5. Sit back and enjoy the music.

There is heaps more you can do but this will give most noticable improvement

richms

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#347684 4-Jul-2010 15:13

SPDIF from a PC can easily be lossless if it supports 44.1kHz and you bypass the sample rate conversion. How else would it be able to play back DTS disc rips if it was anything but lossless?

Why would you waste money on an external DAC when the reciver already has some in it, and by activating the pure direct mode you are eliminating any ability to process the sound to equalize it or cross it over if you have small main speakers?

Richard rich.ms

tkr001

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Ultimate Geek
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#347759 4-Jul-2010 19:11

WTF are you on about. Whether or not a file is lossless or not has nothing to do with the transport medium, rather how it was ripped in the first place. Whether or not you can play it depends on the players support for the particular file format. As to using the AVRs DACs they are usually not as good as an external one. In fact using an AVR for music is a compromise in itself.

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