Laptop advice needed

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#3164535 27-Nov-2023 17:04

In my opinion, your budget and your goals don't really match.

Firstly, performance is generally always going to be a compromise on a laptop unless you basically throw money at it. As has been noted above, for the workload you're talking about, performance is going to come at a much higher price.

Secondly, expecting 5-7 years of life under heavy load from a relatively low end consumer gaming laptop like the MSI you linked is what I would term "wildly optimistic".

At your price point, you're going to get better performance from a desktop (or a workstation if you can find one that cheap), but even then I'm not sure you'd even be able to find one that's likely to last 7 years.

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#3164555 27-Nov-2023 18:10

graham007:
If I were to rephrase my question,

My budget is about 2k , main activity being Revit cad , and want to future proof performance for 5-7 years

What would be the best option for me

I got a quote done MSI laptop thin 11uc 1410nz rtx3050 _ i7 11800h _16gb _1tb , upgraded to 64 GB ram all up comes to $2130 NZD ( comp lounge akl )

Is it worth it . / Wil it be fit for me.

Or do you suggest any other brands which I shud consider given my 2k price range.

Thank you

I would say go for a used mobile workstation with a professional graphics card. Those graphics cards are optimised for CAD, but do cost a lot, so your budget is unlikely to stretch to a new one .

My personal laptop is a dell Precision M4700, I am not sure how old mine Is, but I think the series was relapsed in 2012. I brought it used in late 2013.

Still going strong, more than a decade after I purchased it. That said:

I have upgraded to a SSD (with the mechanical drive moved to the optical bay)
The graphics card died (meaning I was stuck with integrated graphics for a bit), but I swapped it out with one from ebay.
I replaced the fans (one was getting a little noisey) - I do leave it on 24/7
Every couple of years I pull it apart and vacuum the dust from the heat sinks
I added a Bluetooth module.
The screen on it really sucks (dull) - But i mostly use an external 1440p screen anyway.
It is build very heavy and strong.
Have gone through many batteries.
I hardly use it for anything serious anymore.

I have been issued a slim portable workstation by my workplace - Dell Precision 5560. All our NZ based Revit modelers use something from the Dell Precision series (either something like mine, or the thicker 15" version). Our India team use HP Z series.

This seems like a good deal:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/computers/laptops/laptops/dell/listing/4435553771

But be aware that both the CPU & GPU have were first benchmarked in mid 2019, so it is far from cutting edge, but is very high end.

graham007

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#3164558 27-Nov-2023 18:14

Scott3:
graham007:
If I were to rephrase my question,

My budget is about 2k , main activity being Revit cad , and want to future proof performance for 5-7 years

What would be the best option for me

I got a quote done MSI laptop thin 11uc 1410nz rtx3050 _ i7 11800h _16gb _1tb , upgraded to 64 GB ram all up comes to $2130 NZD ( comp lounge akl )

Is it worth it . / Wil it be fit for me.

Or do you suggest any other brands which I shud consider given my 2k price range.

Thank you

I would say go for a used mobile workstation with a professional graphics card. Those graphics cards are optimised for CAD, but do cost a lot, so your budget is unlikely to stretch to a new one .

My personal laptop is a dell Precision M4700, I am not sure how old mine Is, but I think the series was relapsed in 2012. I brought it used in late 2013.

Still going strong, more than a decade after I purchased it. That said:

I have upgraded to a SSD (with the mechanical drive moved to the optical bay)

The graphics card died (meaning I was stuck with integrated graphics for a bit), but I swapped it out with one from ebay.

I replaced the fans (one was getting a little noisey) - I do leave it on 24/7

Every couple of years I pull it apart and vacuum the dust from the heat sinks

I added a Bluetooth module.

The screen on it really sucks (dull) - But i mostly use an external 1440p screen anyway.

It is build very heavy and strong.

Have gone through many batteries.

I hardly use it for anything serious anymore.

I have been issued a slim portable workstation by my workplace - Dell Precision 5560. All our NZ based Revit modelers use something from the Dell Precision series (either something like mine, or the thicker 15" version). Our India team use HP Z series.

This seems like a good deal:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/computers/laptops/laptops/dell/listing/4435553771

But be aware that both the CPU & GPU have were first benchmarked in mid 2019, so it is far from cutting edge, but is very high end.

Very good valid points. Thank you so much for the input

Just two questions _ 1)
The laptop you have linked here seems ex lease ? If I have to buy that brand new box sealed what would it cost. And 2)
How does this laptop you linked compared to the MSI one I have listed for similar 2.1k

Lias

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#3164572 27-Nov-2023 18:52

graham007: Just two questions _ 1)
The laptop you have linked here seems ex lease ? If I have to buy that brand new box sealed what would it cost. And 2)
How does this laptop you linked compared to the MSI one I have listed for similar 2.1k

The one he linked is ex lease, you couldn't buy it new because it's several generations old. An equivalent spec in a brand new machine would be somewhere up around the 4-6k mark I expect.

As for comparison, it's somewhat apples and oranges being a brand new but entry level consumer gaming laptop vs a used but high spec mobile workstation.

gzt

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#3164574 27-Nov-2023 18:54

This is not a comment specifically on the MSI I'm not familiar with the model.

I do know the huge variety of consumer laptops and desktops available mainly cater to the consumer desire for interesting form factors and multicoloured stickers and flashing things on the outside.

Commerical and similar machines tend to keep the same form factor and revise the same board sometimes for years in a row making improvements based on use.

graham007

221 posts

Master Geek

#3164576 27-Nov-2023 18:54

Lias:
graham007: Just two questions _ 1)
The laptop you have linked here seems ex lease ? If I have to buy that brand new box sealed what would it cost. And 2)
How does this laptop you linked compared to the MSI one I have listed for similar 2.1k

The one he linked is ex lease, you couldn't buy it new because it's several generations old. An equivalent spec in a brand new machine would be somewhere up around the 4-6k mark I expect.

As for comparison, it's somewhat apples and oranges being a brand new but entry level consumer gaming laptop vs a used but high spec mobile workstation.

Ahhh got it , understand it much better now . Thanks heaps for your input and time. 😃😀👍👍

gzt

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#3164577 27-Nov-2023 18:56

Regarding Dell I haven't owned or used one recently. Their business and semi business machines I always liked as good performers.

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#3164635 27-Nov-2023 19:21

Batman:

i don't suppose your program runs on Mac OS?

i'd recommend M2 macbook for anything that works on it

Autodesk has a page called "Revit for Mac"... which tells you to use a Windows VM or Boot Camp.

graham007

221 posts

Master Geek

#3164638 27-Nov-2023 19:23

I am not Mac oriented so it would be too hard for me to switch to mac now.

But I do get it , MacBooks are known to run quite smooth fast in heavy video editing rendering application.

Qazzy03

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#3164677 27-Nov-2023 20:15

graham007:
My budget is about 2k ,

main activity being Revit cad ,

and want to future proof performance for 5-7 years

This is one of those times where you have three points and you only get two.

I am sorry to say $2,000 budget doesn't get you far when looking at laptops.
You can pay to upgrade the ram to 64GB and 1 TB SDD but that does not mean laptop will be future proof.
Heck, I am impressed if a 'gaming' laptop lasts 3-4 years.
From reviews online, it appears the MSI laptop only has one fan, so keeping it cool with heavy workloads could become an issue.
Mixed reviews on the build quality too.

I think you need to adjust your expectations, will that MSI laptop you have linked run Revit, yes,
How well or for how long.....I don't know, I doubt it would last the length of time you want.
Geekzone Scott3 listed all the things they did to their laptop to keep it running and 'fit' for use over the years, would you have the ability to do any of that?
If you can't then your laptop could end up as a large paper weight.

Lastly Laptop/PC tech is always advancing, there is no such thing is actually future proof.
The MSI laptop has a Intel 12th generation CPU, Intel are launching their moblie 14 generation CPU offically next month, desktop verison already out.
mind you may take some time for 14th generation laptops to come out and to New Zealand.
Thing is there is always something new, faster, better coming.

What I am trying to say, is get something like this and give up on the laptop dream lol.
If you need to travel, take a shitty laptop and remote work into a workstation instead

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/EXWKSHPZ644/HP-Z640-Workstation-A-Grade-Off-Lease-Intel-Xeon-E

Scott3

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#3164697 27-Nov-2023 21:51

graham007:

Very good valid points. Thank you so much for the input

Just two questions _ 1)
The laptop you have linked here seems ex lease ? If I have to buy that brand new box sealed what would it cost. And 2)
How does this laptop you linked compared to the MSI one I have listed for similar 2.1k

Other comment was pretty much correct.

If we take the i9 processer equipped dell precision laptop's, and look at new prices, they range from $4025 - $8,027.

If you compare the specs of the $4025 dell with the Used laptop I linked prior, the dell gets a 12% faster Graphics card, a 36% faster processer, but half the ram and half the storage (don't pay to much attention to ram and - storage. they can be upgraded).

Yeah, higher end mobile workstations with professional grade graphic's cards are expensive... Generally so much so that it is not reasonable to buy a new one privately. Hence why I brought my personal laptop used, and recommend you do the same. (there isn't a massive used market for these, as many people don't even know what a professional graphic card is.)

What you get for that money is certified drivers for stuff like the Autodesk suite, and a graphics card that is optimised for higher accuracy (as opposed to a consumer graphics card which is optimised for high speed). Also overall build quality & durability tends to be very high. Corporates that are spending $4k - $8k on a laptop that they are going to issue to some engineer that is going to throw it in a backpack daily expect it to hold up for the typical 3-4 year lease periods, so it going to be built stronger than a consumer laptop where the brand just cares that it outlasts it's 1 year warranty.

As an example of the above, both my personal and work laptops have metal bodies, vs the plastic body of my prior personal dell. and my chunky personal laptop is far easy to open up to clean out than my prior personal dell laptop.

The business laptops are also set up to use docking stations. For my personnel dell this is a clonk on top style port replicator. My work dell is USB C thunderbolt 4.

Downside of these mobile work stations is they tend to be expensive, bulky, heavy, power hungry (my personal dell goes into limp mode if you feed it with anything less than a 180W power brick), that Lenovo I linked comes with a 230W brick. For comparison most non gaming consumer laptops will run 45 - 60W power bricks, and have relatively poor battery life.

Comparing the MSI gaming laptop, the Used Lenovo workstation I linked to has a little slower CPU (MSI is 11% faster, and the GPU on the MSI will be heaps faster). Build quality will be worse on the gaming laptop, but of course it is brand new... Really you are paying for that professional CAD optimised graphic card in the workstation.

Given you are buying for CAD, I would say go for the laptop that is built for it, with certified drivers etc...

But of course back when I was at uni we all ran various 3D cad packages on consumer / gaming laptops (mobile workstations didn't really exist back then), without major issue...

Obviously a 3 year old laptop is going to be imperfect cosmetically. And likely due for a new battery too. And be aware that generic USB-C docking stations often max out at 90W, which is not enough power for these power hungry workstations, so you are best to go with a propriety one from the same brand that can handle more power (dell manages to squeeze 130W over a single port, but some workstations need docking station with duel ports to feed more power.

graham007

221 posts

Master Geek

#3164701 27-Nov-2023 22:15

Thanks a tonne people . So much valid in depth points which I wasn't aware off.

Yes I need to have realistic expectations based on the money I have so I have a fair bit to think about.

Also to paint a honest picture yes I will expect to do Revit but it's not bringing me anywhere close to full time money - it's only sort of freelance work so it's very much like a gamble , if I will get the clients or not is a question mark .

gzt

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#3164702 27-Nov-2023 22:16

Likewise my personal machines are all ex-lease commercials. It is not uncommon to get machines that look almost new. These guys have a good range of Dell Precision laptop machines today. At least one dock is showing there.

https://nzpcclearance.co.nz/?s=Dell+precision&post_type=product&dgwt_wcas=1

Personally I'd look at spending half the money you planned and get a commerical quality machine with good cooling. Replace in three years if you feel the need. Battery, well these kind of machines spend most of their life plugged in anyway.

2c.

graham007

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Master Geek

#3164750 27-Nov-2023 22:31

gzt: Likewise my personal machines are all ex-lease commercials. It is not uncommon to get machines that look almost new. These guys have a good range of Dell Precision laptop machines today. At least one dock is showing there.

https://nzpcclearance.co.nz/?s=Dell+precision&post_type=product&dgwt_wcas=1

Personally I'd look at spending half the money you planned and get a commerical quality machine with good cooling. Replace in three years if you feel the need. Battery, well these kind of machines spend most of their life plugged in anyway.

2c.

Thanks for taking the time and your guidance .

Is this site genuine and do they have good genuine products , good customer support.

Can they increase ram to 64 GB and offer warranty.

Scott3

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#3164753 27-Nov-2023 22:39

Qazzy03:

This is one of those times where you have three points and you only get two.

I am sorry to say $2,000 budget doesn't get you far when looking at laptops.
You can pay to upgrade the ram to 64GB and 1 TB SDD but that does not mean laptop will be future proof.
Heck, I am impressed if a 'gaming' laptop lasts 3-4 years.
From reviews online, it appears the MSI laptop only has one fan, so keeping it cool with heavy workloads could become an issue.
Mixed reviews on the build quality too.

I think you need to adjust your expectations, will that MSI laptop you have linked run Revit, yes,
How well or for how long.....I don't know, I doubt it would last the length of time you want.
Geekzone Scott3 listed all the things they did to their laptop to keep it running and 'fit' for use over the years, would you have the ability to do any of that?
If you can't then your laptop could end up as a large paper weight.

Lastly Laptop/PC tech is always advancing, there is no such thing is actually future proof.
The MSI laptop has a Intel 12th generation CPU, Intel are launching their moblie 14 generation CPU offically next month, desktop verison already out.
mind you may take some time for 14th generation laptops to come out and to New Zealand.
Thing is there is always something new, faster, better coming.

What I am trying to say, is get something like this and give up on the laptop dream lol.
If you need to travel, take a shitty laptop and remote work into a workstation instead

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/EXWKSHPZ644/HP-Z640-Workstation-A-Grade-Off-Lease-Intel-Xeon-E

On that final link, it may be a desktop work station (which will normally deliver more bang for buck), but that one is old. The Quadro M6000 (12GB?) graphic's card was extremely high end, but was launched back in March 2015... The late 2019 era NVIDIA Quadro RTX 4000 Max-Q in the Lenovo I linked to is 34% faster. And it's the mobile form factor OP wanted.

Should note in industry, it is all about mobile work stations these days. In 2017 or 2018 I was working for a major US headquartered consultancy, and the engineers & draft's people were swapped to (very expensive) Laptops in the name of company resilience and risk reduction (our wellington office got condemned in the wake of the Kaikoura earthquake), so it was seen as worth the money in the name of business resilience. The pandemic would have likely forced the laggards across.

Perhaps it's not realistic for OP to eek another 5 - 7 years out of an already used machine (despite me eking a decade out of mine - I don't really use it for anything heavy any more). But the next thing on the horizon for CAD is cloud based...

My manager didn't let me get revit installed on my work machine (but I do use autocad a heap) - but I am tasked with co-ordination between 3 India based Revit modelers and the the NZ based engineering team. Only way for me to view the models is via an online tool called BIM360... (or a can get them to make me a navisworks file...

I think OP should get what they think they will need for the next 2 - 3 years, as the future is hard to see beyond that. Workstations may be a thing of the past, with the hard work moved to the cloud? Or OP could decide that they hate revit, or that they love it, and get a job doing it full time (with an employer that thinks nothing of issuing a $5000 laptop to them).

Edit - checked a second benchmark. this only has the RXT 400 Max-Q 7.6% faster than the M6000.

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