Article on NZ Herald misses the point on netbooks

Forums › Laptops and mobile computers › Article on NZ Herald misses the point on netbooks

1 | 2

patdude

64 posts

Master Geek

#225782 17-Jun-2009 11:36

6 kinds of ignorant? Gee thanks dude - The article was written for the general public, not linux loving geeks like ourselves (Note: I use Ubuntu, Suse and Windows)

I definitely DO see the point of netbooks and never said they should be used INSTEAD of a "fat client"... If you'd bothered to read my story properly you'd see that I'd said "Ideally a netbook is a great compliment to an existing desktop or notebook PC"'

Whilst you are enjoying Linux on your Asus, Frietasm raises a really valid point - Driver support can really blow with different Linux distros and most average (e.g. non techhie) folk have used Windows forever and simply dont simply want to learn another OS so unfortunately windows is still a big sales driver, even on Netbooks

So whilst I do agree with your comment that netbooks are indeed windows into the cloud and dont agree with Microsoft's pricing policies (it is awfully hard for a business like MS to beat open source on a price basis), but the fact is that there is still a very large niche for Windows on a netbook and as much as it pains me to admit it, this has been a big driver of netbook sales to the general (e.g. non linux fanboy geek) public.

As for your NZ Herald bashing, lets get real - The NZH is intended for a largely mainstream readership, of course its not going to always agree with geek view of the world, but surely we should encourage any tech coverage in what can only be best described as a geek cultural desert? Its easy to forget that then us geeks are a minority and getting more of the mainstream onboard with tech is vital to the long term growth of geek-kind

As for your assertion that my piece was driven by PR rhetoric, thats just silly. The story was written to inform the general public about the pro's and cons of netbooks, not geeks who've got linux religion. If you check my NZH stories you'll also see that I have covered Linux in the past...

freakalad

231 posts

Master Geek

#225786 17-Jun-2009 11:52

I do not agree with your contention that Linux is only for geeks.
Linux has been ready for widespread end-user use for quite some time, but Hardy Heron LTS 8.04 was the critical tipping-point.

The entire point behind Ubuntu is that it's intended for laymen use.
The term "Ubuntu" actually means "for the people" or a slang for community spirit & a sence of belonging; as share & share-alike philosophy.

Linux only gets a cursory mention (thanks for that at least), and not nearly it's anything close to it's fair shake (which is all I'm asking for). A quick look over coverage on international publications (PC-world, Ars, Wired, take your pick) point to a glaring difference.

Again, I'd like to point to the chicken & egg example: people are not going to try anything new unless they've been made aware of alternatives, and they do not get the constant line that "free != good". Until consumers actually better educated & demand alternative system, retailers will not oblige, but that's not going to happen without exposure.

FLOSS'er, aspiring Maker

patdude

64 posts

Master Geek

#225793 17-Jun-2009 12:18

Lets get one thing straight here - I never contended that Linux is only for geeks, but what I did state is that a large number of mainstream (e.g.. non techie) people raised on a diet of Windwos simply don't want to learn another OS. This isnt conjecture its a Netbook sales trend.

Giving journos and their publications the bash on Linux also wont predispose them to linux. I'd also argue that Linux media coverage has been steadily improving and that the ubiquity of Linux distros on magazine covers has allowed anyone who wants to try Linux to give it a go. In short there's plenty of exposure and its getting better all the time.

One possible idea would be rather than going oin the attack, to instead put your $$$ where your mouth is and approach the herald to cover Linux with a view to giving it a public face that the average newspaper reader can appreciate. I'll happily put you in touch with the right people NZH as it'd be brilliant to see some linux for beginners coverage that'd have mainstream appeal.

freakalad

231 posts

Master Geek

#225801 17-Jun-2009 12:40

patdude : I appreciate the notion. Thanks

In my view, one of the biggest factors holding windows-users off linux, is games.
I've yet to find good games on any linux platform.
There are a very few applications (vertical markets) that are not available on linux, yet, like PhotoShop or Avid, but there are some credible alternatives, like Gimp.

Again, you've pointed to one of the biggest problems: inertia.
People don't like changing their ways, even if it is for the better, unless they are compelled by some strong reason (it went fine for mac os/x, though). For me, the tipping point cam from getting very poor support from redmond at a critical juncture, despite being paid up on multiple licenses.

I know that some of us come across as zealous (I'm making an effort to avoid this myself), but many (I'd daresay most) of use feel very strongly, not only about these systems systems, but also about the philosophy that government this.
This extends to systems like WikiPedia, the ideals the web itself was founded on, principals of democracy & justice, etc.
The philosophy encompasses the technology; not the other way around

Linux is largely community-driven, and there are numerous local organizations that would only be too happy to give you any info on the subject you desire. NZ-LUG, any of the city LUG's, like Aucklug, WellyLUG, ChChLUG, Hamilton, Hibiscus coast, Dunedin, etc, or even NZOSS.
If a reporter was willing to come to a meet to get some answers, I'm sure almost any LUG would be willing to devote an entire session (with prior notice) to answer any question they may have, and possibly sponsor a beer.
If you'd like, I'll float this request on your behalf.

FLOSS'er, aspiring Maker

patdude

64 posts

Master Geek

#225810 17-Jun-2009 13:04

You're right inertia is a a real issue but also bear in mind that tech stories must have a broad appeal if written in a national paper so having already written the what is linux piece (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10530745) the big question is where to go next, remembering that any story has to work with the mainstream and not be too techie....

freakalad

231 posts

Master Geek

#225825 17-Jun-2009 14:05

Yea. I read that article, and I remember that it was refreshing change of pace (and pretty amusing), but that there was a few VERY important omissions or mistakes.
For a 101, it was a really nice introduction, but I think it wouldn't have rocked my world with possibilities if I was a laymen user. Sorry if you feel slighted, but that's just my honest opinion.

Please allow me to elaborate:
* No disambiguation of the term "free": libre vs. gratis
* No need for new hardware. Linux works just as well on a 5-year old dusty celeron PC as the one you where compelled to buy in order to run vista.
* SuSE was a nice choice, and I know quite a few that are pretty fond of it, but my personal bias is the *Ubuntu's: Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Mind, EduBuntu (I think you may have missed a big market here), to name a few. Primary reasoning is that ubuntu is currently the most popular desktop-distro out there, with a very tight release cycle (6-months!), VERY good hardware support & a very vibrant community ready & willing to lend support. It's a beautiful & very forgiving OS
* Ubuntu has a few options at your disposal: run as a live disk, run as an "app" INSIDE windows, or use the migration tool to resize your HDD to set up a dual-boot system (not even touching on VM options here).
* Not only is the OS free (libre & gratis), but so are the numerous applications available. No mention was made that once you've either installed the OS, or are simply running it of CD, USB, ipod or other "live" medium, you have a complete set of tools (not trialware like the norton OEM you get with a new system) that you can start using immediately: office, web, mail, graphics, audio ,etc
* Many, if not most, of the apps available to *nix'ers are also available on windows, like FireFox, OOo, Gimp, Pidgin, etc, and that using them on windows first may ease the transition to Linux or Mac.
* If you want to spend money, you can still purchase paid support. Difference being, you'll probably stand a better chance getting value for your money. Even if not, if you get stuck with anything, there's an army of users out there (ubuntuforums.org, IRC) willing & able to help, and often you are actually able to get in touch with the actual developers, if you're lucky.
* Hardware is hit & miss on both system. Vista's backward compatibility issues are well-known, & Linux is getting better support every day. Read the documentation & check to see that your hardware is compatible.This is true for ALL systems: windows, mac, gnu-linux, unix, etc
* GNU-Linux is not AS susceptible to malware as windows is. Viruses are almost unheard of, the AV is free (ClamAV), and implementing security measures is a couple of clicks away (UFW). Windows still requires numerous additional applications to secure it, and even some of those are pretty dubious, and they add additional strain & complications to an already burdened system. The odds of downloading & installing dodgy software from some site on the net is MUCH greater that the same happening when installing from the repository. Since the repositories host FOSS software, the chances of installing malicious software is MUCH less

These are points that are only scratching the surface.
The economic value of FOSS has also been debated (money leaving the economy to go to redmond, local skills development), the ecological (constant purchase of new computer hardware filling up landfills, software shipping materials, disks), or security (government departments being held hostage by licensing). The list goes on, but for the purposes of this discussion, is a bit OT

FLOSS'er, aspiring Maker

freakalad

231 posts

Master Geek

#225843 17-Jun-2009 15:17

To supplement point made before:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/blogs/linuxline/166551/how_open_source_can_beat_the_status_quo.html

FLOSS'er, aspiring Maker

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

Ragnor

8218 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#225861 17-Jun-2009 16:08

Ubuntu suffers from massive lack of brand recognition. Who's going to run Apple style switcher ads for Ubuntu? Who's going to run laptop hunter ads for Ubuntu?

Apple + Mac and Microsoft + Windows are household names that the average joe knows about.. the fact of the matter is Linux and Ubuntu aren't. The lack of a united front and the huge fragmentation in Linux flavours means they probably never will be.

Ubuntu Linux is a good enough option for enthusiasts, geek and developers but it's still a bridge too far for the average joe in my opinion.

freakalad

231 posts

Master Geek

#225871 17-Jun-2009 16:51

Ragnor : Funny you should mention that.
I was thinking about the very same thing the other day. MS & Apple are absolute masters of marketing. The fact that they charge a license fee for the use of their software (whichever way you cut it), generates them a MASSIVE revenue stream, and let's face it, spending money on marketing pays.
It pays VERY well, and is something that does have to be addressed!

still a bridge too far for the average joe

It really depends on what you define as your "average-Joe".
Do they only need Internet, email, office, bit of media & manipulation, IM/VoIP, and solitaire or minesweeper? I'd say about 80-90% of the user-base falls into this category.

If so, there is not a single good reason why Ubutnu (or Kubuntu or Mint if you like eye-candy) won't fit the bill: FireFox, Thunderbird/Evolution (which works well with exchange, btw), VLC/Gimp/Amarok/Banshee, Pidgin/Skype. (note that they all have windows & mac candidates available to ease migration).
Ubuntu (& the Gnome project in general) have done a lot of good work, providing those tools that you "average joe" needs on a default system.
ms have done a similarly good job of looking at how user interact with the system, but not all that much has changes since before the windows'95-days (UI-wise, I mean)

Do they have some specific application that won't work with wine? Have they made an effort to find an alternative:
* http://www.osalt.com/
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_alternatives_to_proprietary_software
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open_source_software_packages

Nobody said it's going to happen overnight, or that a bit of work is not required (it's free, as in $0, and free, as in freedom, but not free of effort), but if users actually stop & ask themselves the next time their machine's infected, or throws a BSoD, or if the BSA comes knocking on the door to do a software audit: "Is it worth it?" or "Am I not being fleeced or taken for a ride?" or "What's happening under the hood?"

...chicken & egg....chicken & egg...

FLOSS'er, aspiring Maker

freakalad

231 posts

Master Geek

#225876 17-Jun-2009 17:01

What does MY head in are the various licenses, how they play with one-another & what they mean in the larger sense.
GPL 2 vs 3, LGPL, BSD, Mozilla, Apache, and the whole kaleidescope of others.

If it does my head in like this, I sure do pity the poor n00by soul that's trying to get a grip on this.

My general rule of thumb is: if I can download it, view it, alter it & freely redistribute it, it's fine by me.
I know of several other that would vigorously disagree with me, but I'm trying to keep it simple so that, if a mom or a dad or anyone needs to know "what is FOSS", that should be a simple & understandable answer, that has wider application than just software

Obviously, there's no simple solution(s) to some of these questions.

FLOSS'er, aspiring Maker

d3Xt3r

687 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#227272 22-Jun-2009 09:32

Here are some interesting but sad developments:

Sorry Linux but the chicken came first
Linux on Netbooks: The Smoking Gun

freakalad

231 posts

Master Geek

#227280 22-Jun-2009 09:56

Thanks for those interesting articles, d3Xt3r

...sorry state of affairs.

suppose I can take solace in the fact that the desktop is effectively moving to the background, and that SaaS is becoming more pervasive, so the focus is moving to the browser, a OS-neutral platform

FLOSS'er, aspiring Maker

1 | 2